Why are round entrance holes still in use?

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

My 2 cents worth, I think that way too much emphasis is put on hole type, housing type (houses or gourds), tunnels or porches, mud smeared on the housing, and dawnsong type tapes etc. I know that everyone cannot have the ideal location, but it is my firm belief that the openness and appearance of the location will determine how quickly anyone can attract martins. Now there are other things that can chase them away (sparrows, starlings, hawks, owls, snakes, etc), but when initially starting a new colony, I think it very definitely is the openness of the location. I don't think anything can help a location that is too near the trees.

There are plenty of martins around here, especially for my neighbors. There are 7 people that have houses up in their yards within a mile of my colony. Three of these locations are well managed and they produce a lot of martins. The other 4 sites cannot attract or keep martins either because the trees are too close or the houses are filled with starlings and sparrows. Three of them sit empty, even the starlins and sparrows will not use them, they are too close to the trees. Why are they empty? There cannot be any other reason. If you cannot attract them near our house, then how good must the site be where martins are not plentiful? The site must be very good, and very open.

Last year my daughter put up a gourd rack in a very open location and got martins within a week. She moved this year, and put the rack up about three weeks later than last year at her new house, it was in February. Her new site is nearby and it is completely open on 1/2 of the area, the other side has 3 trees that are about 50ft away. There are about 8 trees in her yard, about 1 acre, the rest of the terrain is wide open. We put the gourd rack near a fence and on the other side of the fence is a wide open cow pasture (and I wouldn't go in there, those bulls look mean). The martins will not use that site. The same gourds with the nesting material still in them was used. When I see this happen down here where martins are plentiful, then it has to be the trees that are too close. She was able to attract a nest of sparrows, so I helped her take care of them...smile

So the discussion about round holes or SREH can continue, but that is not what determines if you can attract martins...thats my opinion.

[T Seber]

Emil I tend to agree and often tell people that who seek my advice about matins. An open location is at the top of the list. After that comes the ability to keep sparrows and starlings from taking over the housing
Just Sunday I had an old friend tell me that he had hung two gourds that I prepared and gave him under an old ugly looking wood house He said one of them had martins..... That martins came around every morning but just would not use the other gourd which was almost identical to the first. I went by yesterday to see if I could tell what his problem was. His location is excellent, about as good as it gets. As we were walking across the yard I saw a sparrow exit the one on the right. I said LC it is the one on the right they won't use. He said how did you know that. It was simple...I knew his gourd was filled with a sparrow nest so that martins couldn't get inside. I gave him two more gourds and advised him to get rid of his sparrows. His eyesight has failed but he said he would put his grandson on that project and that he would clean out the gourd and hang the other two under his house as well.

Location trumps everything else. Next is S &s control predator control and then type housing plays a role as well....or at least that is what I have seen over the years.

I never have read where anyone tried to make people quit using round holes or sreh for that matter. I really believe the original question had to do with sreh could be used freely and that perhaps round holes were no longer really needed to have a martin colony... or at least that is the way I read the question.

Yes...By all means....everyone please use what suits them best. But having said that.... I know that sreh will do nicely and also provide some measure of starling protection to a colony... Sparrows are a different matter.. they freely enter and build in either type. So everyone to their own thing And best wishes to all and may the Good Lord smile on you.....

[Lane Stout]

.....I can tell little or no difference in the ease of building a colony with round holes or sreh built the way we build them. If anything, I would give the nod to the sreh.

Very interesting bold statement. I would be very intrigued to see this tested at a new colony, offering both round holes and the type of SREH with tunnels you are describing.

Robert that what you propose is exactly what I did about seven years ago when I first started. Here is how things went for me with the SREH vs. round choice.

I offered 24 natural gourds in 2004 all outfitted with tunneled entrances. Half were crescent, half were round holes. The first year I had one pair, in a SREH gourd. The second year two pair, both in SREH, the third year three pair, all in SREH.

I then eliminated all the round holes and replaced with the then new WDC's because by the third year the starlings found my colony and had a field day with the round entrances. Once the round holes were gone so were the starlings.

The next season I had seventeen pair, the next forty-six after adding two more racks with Troyer Horizontals with WDC's, and the next fifty-six pairs (full capacity).

I've since changed out some of the natural gourds with crescents with the new Troyer Verticals with tunneled WDCII's and I'm full up this season again!

I must also disclose that for the first four years I also offered two Coates WatersEdge houses with crescent entrances. They were never nested in and I removed them when adding the two additional gourd racks.

I really can't tell if the birds have a preference between the crescent, the WDC or the WDCII. At my site I know they choose crescent over round three years straight when they were the only choices.

SREH works for me and I choose to use them exclusively. I'm convinced anyone can be successful starting with proven SREH types if so desired.

To each his own and best wishes to everyone for a successful completion of the 2010 martin season!

[T Seber]

Thanks Lane and I am not one bit surprised. That is the way I thought it would be from my observations. I felt pretty sure the tunneled sreh would at least break even and was quite confident they would more than hold their own against round holes.

Having said that.... There is still one very strong and valid reason for a person to use round holes and I accept it fully. It is their colony, their property and their choice. I wouldn't have it any other way. Every person has a right to do just that. Sometimes a person may just like the look of round holes better... if that is the case... I have no problem with it. I would do the same if that was what I wanted to do

Neither am I surprised that the gourds you used outperformed the house. I have never owned that particular style house but that style gourd has outperformed everything I have ever put it up against.

Lane correct me if I am wrong but is my memory correct... Do you use the same style gourd I use? And do you build it basically th same way I build mine? I have seen photos of your colony and they sure do look a lot like mine.

Thurman Seber

[Brad-AL]

That's interesting Lane. A head to head comparison at your colony from day one. Thanks for sharing your information.

[Lane Stout]

Lane correct me if I am wrong but is my memory correct... Do you use the same style gourd I use? And do you build it basically the same way I build mine? I have seen photos of your colony and they sure do look a lot like mine.

I have a variety of tunnel styles now. The first few years all of my tunnels were built like yours and I do personally prefer them. Because of time limitations all of my new gourds have been Troyer horizontals and verticals both with tunnels and SREH.

In the years since I have offered the Troyers I have witnessed two entrapments however, upon lowering the racks to remove the stuck birds they freed themselves before I could get to them. I have never lost a bird in a Troyer due to entrapment and I have never experienced entrapment at all in the style tunnel you describe and use.

Oh, I must make one correction from my earlier post. I do have one round hole at my colony site. It is in a repeating nest box trap. The combination of being 100% SREH and having a great working repeating nest box trap is a perfect combination. The six to ten starlings that randomly make their way through this area go straight to checking out my gourds. They have trouble gaining entry due to the SREH and then notice the nice round hole in the white house over by my shop about 100 feet away. They gleefully make a dash for it and jump right in.

[Guest]

I never used round holes at my place since I started as I have written in my previous post. But, if them martins did like round holes better than SREH's I could very well have a super colony in only 5 years. This is my 5th year & looks like I will be halfway this season. I do not believe a martin will not nest just because it is some sort of SREH. If they like your site they will learn to get in there.

I truly believe & that is speculation that SREH's is prefer by martins. I think they overall feel more safe nesting in them. I have clingers & crescents & this year one 'Dually' their using. I see no preference in any of them. Of course I do not have enough Dually's to know if they prefer them better as yet.

All them colonies they are closest to me some 19 to 25 air miles away use all round holes & them colonies have been there much longer than mine. I have more martins than all of them.

[Brad-AL]

Ronnie, thanks for your input. I think I already posted this earlier in the thread, but I have never had a round hole at my site either. I started with 4 pair the first year, 33 the next, 60 something the next, then 109 pair the 4th. I can not say for sure, but I don't think my colony could have/would have expanded any faster if I had round holes, even though there were very few if any SREH in my area. Going from 4 pair, to the largest number of nesting pairs that I know of in my county in 4 years with all tunnelled SREH, tells me they like them pretty well. The first year I wasn't all tunnels, the second year I had probably 85% tunnels and by the end of that year I could tell the Martins preferred tunnels so from the 3rd season on, all 3" tunnels here.

[scottfreidhof]

Looks like I will need to change from round holes to SREH at my public sites. The WDC entrances seem to be liked by those who use them. So, what does WDC represent in English?

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

WDC is abbrev for the guy that came up with this design. I think his name is William D Conley

[Brad-AL]

The WDC is also known as the Modified Excluder. Same entrance, 2 names.

[Jim Gramke]

When I put up my first house, I offered 3 round holes facing toward my kitchen window where I could keep an eye on them. The other 9 are crescents. Six crescents were claimed that first year and 1 round. (For what it's worth)
I don't have a S&S problem so left the 3 round holes. Now have crescents on 40+ compartments and gourds.