Round 7: Starling defeats original Excluder!

[Guest]

and they enter. For several years i have not been as worried about starlings because i keep a nest box trap open. i am home most of the day, so i can keep it monitored. All of my entrances are sreh types. i have the trap about 10 feet away from one of the martin houses.

[John Miller]

I have always relied on standard crescents, placed low, at public sites, and some excluder II plates over crescents that I slightly opened in my wreckless youth and then got starlings. The excluder concept stops starlings at their hips...many folks try to not use because of the patents, but shape has always made sense to me. I've heard of maybe one or two breaches in excluder II..pretty rare. The clinger of course draws the sides in, and that seems to mostly work to block starlings and admit martins, but I like the idea of a martin holding their wings slightly out to glide through the excluder II. You should not place excluder IIs less than about one fourth inch off the porch, as we do with crescents, setting those lower or even flush. I have some excluder IIs at one-eighth, and martins seem to find it a little awkward, but manage.

I do use wing guards of some type over most of my SREH on the inside and would not use excluder II plates in a Troyer gourd without a guard, probably homemade from three inch PVC thin wall drain pipe as this SREH would fit this shape. John M

[Glynn B - LA]

[quote="KathyF"][quote="NancyinEnidOK"]While reading this post just now, I glanced out at my Gemini rack, and saw a starling perched on the porch of one of my THG with Conley-II entrance. I reached for my air rifle and headed outside. The starling flew off, and then out of the gourd came its mate. I didn't even have a chance to get off a good shot. Thoroughly disgusting! [/quote]

These stories are making me very, very nervous. I have really been promoting the Troyer gourds with my mentees and with this many stories popping up, they no longer seem to be "one-offs". [/quote][color=red][/color][color=red][/color]


I to have the troyers with conley II entrances. Yes starlings easily breach them. I thought I was purchasing one of the best? Guess there is no such?

I don't have martins as of today but when one does decide to stay there will be no starlings or sparrows to harass him.

S&S controller (13 starlings) Troyer Trap ( 2 starlings 1 sparrow)

Glynn

[Scully]

Somebody I know too just purchased 12 Troyer Horizontal Conley II's on my recommendation

I'm thinking to let the starling eggs hatch so that I can move the nest to a Troyer still with a Conley II on it, this time shimmed up so that the porch is the same as the bottom of the entrance. (if I tried this right now with just the eggs the starlings might leave, however live young would be a powerful draw).


While I doubt it will be as effective as an Excluder or Dually, altering a Conley II to a level of protection on a par with, say, an S&K crescent and porch may turn out to be a simple fix.

Mike Scully

[KathyF]

While I doubt it will be as effective as an Excluder or Dually, altering a Conley II to a level of protection on a par with, say, an S&K crescent and porch may turn out to be a simple fix.

Mike Scully

And I would have an easier time convincing people to take this action, rather than an all out conversion to another style entrance. Thanks for keeping us posted.

[jr 2]

i put clinger entrance plates on one of my trio almost flush with porch and i have the new bo11p gourds with with the tunneled clinger entrance with wing entrapment and i have never seen a starling enter and i sure have plenty of them in this area; i have had 2 asy males here for about 2 weeks and they seem too learn the entrance easy and their ladies that they bring in seem too be doing fine with the clinger and this is my first year trying it;;jr2

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

jr 2, I think that the wingentrapment guard on the tunneled clinger makes the entrance about 1in thick, and that thickness makes it much harder for a starling to enter. I am interested to see how the martins accept it, but I don't have one in use at our place yet.

I remember when we first started to use the SREH, many people suggested that you make the wooden T-14 entrance thinner so the martins can enter more easily. Now we seem to be going back to the thicker entrances. Just wonder how the martins accept the thicker clinger.

[Allan Day]

I have 36 TVG,s and THG,s with Conley II entrances. I just wanted to add my name to the list of breaches. The Starlings don't even slow down when entering, they just zoom in and out. Fortunately, I've been able to trap or shoot all of them(6)

My neighbor got 24 Troyers with Conley II's, on my recommendation. Yesterday alone, I trapped 4 in separate gourds on his rack . This is a severe design problem, and I will be changing these entrances for next year.

[Allan Day]

On a positive note, my 12 new excluder gourds with excluder II entrances have had no breaches. I really like these gourds with their interior porches.
I think they help hide the nest from predators and make it hard for Owl's to reach the nest.

[Scully]

I took the liberty of updating the title to this thread.

Well, here it is; the Clinger installed and ready to go. Note, these S&K versions of these entrances come equipped with a wing entrapment guard as part of the design.



It may be that one of the starling pair has been killed, there was a pile of dark feathers yesterday on the nearby grass that I assumed to be from a martin. There are numerous cats on-site. As it is, it may have been a starling.

Only one more egg has appeared in the last two days for a total of four starling eggs now, and I did not have a starling hanging close to the gourd as in previous visits. Ninety minutes of waiting as dusk deepened to darkness, four starlings loitering on the rack. No activity around the affected Troyer.

Finally, three starlings departed, leaving this one, my little digital doesn't handle dusk well....



Abruptly it flew down, paused a moment on the owl guard, and then went in through the new Clinger entrance so fast and effortlessly that I couldn't catch it on camera.



(Point of interest, note the point of eyeshine on the head of the starling, reflecting from the automatic flash of my old pocket digital from about 60 feet away).

Round 3 for the starling, not even close



Coming up, Round 4: Starling vs. Conley II with porch shimmed to level of entrance hole.

Mike Scully

[M.Stephens]

Mike I didn't think the clinger would stop her. Please keep on trying, hopefully one will work. As Emil stated a small starling with a nest of eggs or young might breach just about any entrance to get to them.
IMO...If the bird is the same size as a martin how do you stop them?? Trapping and shooting.

[Bob Fraser]

I too just watched a starling leaving one of my Troyer Horizontal gourds with Conley II entrance - seems they don't have a problem with them.

Will have to see what I can do about that starling today.

[Matt F.]

Predictions?
I think the starling is going to shoot through the shimmed Conley II.
The final round is going to be between the Dually, and the Excluder/Excluder II.
With the increased width of the oval tunnels Mike is now using, I'd really love to see the regular Excluder tried..........

[KathyF]

When I trapped a starling in a Troyer gourd w/ conley II entrance the other day, I lifted the trap shutter just enough for her to stick her head out so I could grab her. I noticed, just before I yanked her out the entrance that she had grasped the side of the Conley entrance with one of her feet to help pull herself out.

Don't know that this means anything....just another data point.

Also, I had a starling come by my site this morning and try to enter. For the brief time it was here, it couldn't. It's still returning & probing, but so far, no dice. The thought occurred to me: my mentee leaves his gourds out all season. I'm guessing that you do too, right Mike?

I wonder if the starlings are getting an opportunity to test & learn how to use these entrances during the 'off' season while these gourds are out. Since I don't leave mine out all year, they don't have time to learn how to use them....between me shooting/ trapping and the other birds straffing them when they try to land.

[Peggy Riley]

Kathy may have a valid point about leaving gourds open during the off season. I think gourds should always be plugged or taken down.

Kathy did you get bitten? I've gotten pecked by one and I don't think I'd have the nerve to grab one by the head!

Peggy

[Scully]

The thought occurred to me: my mentee leaves his gourds out all season. I'm guessing that you do too, right Mike?

I wonder if the starlings are getting an opportunity to test & learn how to use these entrances during the 'off' season while these gourds are out. Since I don't leave mine out all year, they don't have time to learn how to use them

While I do leave the gourds out all year (where else would I keep them all? ) In the off-season use the simple and inexpensive expedient of blocking the entrance with a clothes pin clamped on to one side of the entrance. Now that I have a bunch of S&K entrances with wing entrapment guards, next off-season I'll use short lengths of pipe insulation (like you use to keep outside faucets from freezing) stuck in the entrances.

To put things in context, there are 38 Troyer Horizontals with Conley II's hung out in our school district now, at eight different sites. Three Troyers have been invaded. I think five or ten years ago we woulda thought "hey, not bad", but now our standards of what constitutes "effective" have risen.

As others have pointed out too, the numbers of Conley II's out there is going up as people buy them, hence more reports of starlings.

After this past couple of weeks I sure wouldn't put out plain ol' Conley II's on new stuff anymore. We had an equal number out last year with no problems but that was in the middle of a very severe dry spell, wherein even the local starlings must have been affected.

I don't believe starlings require a lengthy period of time to learn the entrances. A bigger factor might be the availability of easier nesting sites in the immediate area.

In both of our sites where breaching has happened, there are several other starling pairs with nests in the immediate vicinity on the school buildings.

The Cornell Lab of Ornithology website suggests that starlings may have a preference for breeding in proximity to other starlings, that in many populations males outnumber females, and that male starlings prospect for nest sites and then advertise to attract females.

This is the pic I posted earlier of a male starling advertising for a female...



I'm guessing that starlings put in the time and effort to navigate difficult entrances when all the easy ones are already taken.

I forget who it was, someone here a few years back put captured starlings inside gourds with different SREH's on them much as you did with that Conley II. Under those circumstances, the starlings, in desperately trying to escape, negotiated every SREH style on hand.

I don't know if these results included the Excluder.

Mike Scully

[KathyF]

Kathy may have a valid point about leaving gourds open during the off season. I think gourds should always be plugged or taken down.

Kathy did you get bitten? I've gotten pecked by one and I don't think I'd have the nerve to grab one by the head!

Peggy

Peggy, no - I grabbed her over the top of her head and I had on leather gloves (I wouldn't try it with any other type glove). Plus, I had her head pinned down with the shutter, so that she couldn't twist to bite me. I was actually more afraid of what she was going to do with her feet when she came out, but fortunately I was quick enough to restrain her.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I caught a starling today, and put it into a test box. I made a tunnel that is 1.81 inches wide, and 1-3/16in opening. I caught a starling, put it into the test box. It got hung up in the test tunnel for about 2 minutes, it couldn't go backward or forward. It kept wiggling, a couple feathers came out, but it got thru the opening. The box is only a cardboard box with a hole cut out for the tunnel. I think that a tunnel such as this would keep out over 90% of the starlings. I really was surprised to see the starling escape such a small opening.

Its easy to make if you can cut a few boards in a straight line, and if you own a staple gun. I use a miter saw to make the entire thing .

Next starling, I will try a tunnel that is less than 1-3/4" wide, and the height will still be 1-3/16in. I am determined to find out what minimum width will keep the out. Then I wonder if the martins will use it.

[Scully]

I took the liberty of changing the title again.

Here's a Conley II I modified by placing a small smooth shim designed to bring the porch level to (or in this case a bit above) the level of the entrance.





No contest, not even close, the starling zipping in and out of this entrance several times with ease over a thirty minute period at dusk.

So fast, and in the fading light, that it was hard to catch on my old pocket digital, but looking at the pics I did learn something.

First off, here's the starling about to enter, note the feet grasping the raised edge of the porch...



This expanded portion of a larger pic came out very small, but if you view at 150%, you can make out both feet of the starling grasping the raised edge of the porch as it ducks down to go inside the shimmed entrance...



Another pic, showing the starling pushing off of the porch edge with one foot....




I have heard that starlings will also pull themselves inside an SREH with the back of their head and I recall starlings getting into our old Supergourd crescents with both feet waving in the air as they wriggled inside.

In short, I wonder if a smooth porch is a plus. Seems to me a smooth porch could also be a death trap for any nestling that wandered out there, pretty much guaranteed they'd slide off of the edge at some point.

I suspect the Clinger II entrance was first tested without porches, perhaps with a cling plate, in which configuration I'd bet it might work quite well.

Mike Scully

[M.Stephens]

Mike please do try the dually and excluder entrances. Allot of people are waiting to see the results on these 2. I knew the raised porch wouldn't work but you needed to do that for your test.

Mike since you already have this Conley II entrance on the gourd I wonder if you could raise the porch up even with the bottom of the entrance and dremel out the dip. This is something forum member Bill was trying to say worked for him. I'm sorry about not remembering his last name but he said it really worked for him. I'm not sure it would even stop a determined starling like this one though.