I'd like to hear from anyone using the new Snyder SREH replacement doors in their houses. I've remodeled my nests to 6 x 12 and installed the new Snyder doors, but so far I only have one male trying to use them. Several others have come and gone after trying to enter a few times unsuccessfully. Now I'm tempted to put my old doors back on; I have some Starling problems, but not too bad. I'm home all day, so I can keep a close eye on my houses. PLEASE, what should I do? I feel so bad to see my PMs circle, land and try to enter and then fly away. I am totally frustrated.
Some more info would help:
what kind of house do you have?
when did you put the new entrances on?
how many pairs/how many years with martins?
(New forum folks, welcome, and please fill out your profiles - see why this info is helpful?)
You need to give them time to get used to the new entrances. When they want to get inside, they will. Excluder entrances can be used with success at new sites, where martins have never nested before, so they'll work at yours too. Hang in there!
Sorry for the delay, had to watch KENTUCKY beat Wichita, GO BIG BLUE!! Thanks for your answer; I have been at this location 3 years, last year, had four pairs nesting in my M12K with original "keyhole" shaped holes. I've had boxes for about 45 years, with good luck raising PMs. I put up my box about 5 days before seeing my first scout. I had 4 at one time but they tried a few times to get in and then left. I think one male spent last night but not too sure. I hope I can retain my sanity a few more days to see if they can adapt. Everything I read says they will LEARN to use the new holes, -- sure hope so! Would like to hear of others using the Snyder design.
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony. I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas. When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle. When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming. Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs. Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
4th Gen -- I am fairly certain I have the Excluder which has a little broader opening at the bottom of the "wing" slot, if that makes sense. I think the II has a smaller pointed opening. Please explain the difference in how the PMs use them. Thanks,
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony. I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas. When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle. When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming. Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs. Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
I am the one trying to learn and distinquish the two as writers post their questions.
As to how the martins use them, I would presume the same.
I have been pleased and am confident in both. I myself had landlord anxiety over these SREHs at one time, but now I believe that when the martins want in, they will get in.
Now, how to use wing entrapment protectors for either the Excluder or the Excluder II, I am not sure.
When I visited the original tower clock pendulum movement of the Calloway County Courthouse years ago, it was not working. Any good news about its restoration? I know that the cost of such a restoration is an issue in any county's budget.
Mark.
Last edited by 4th Gen Martin Fan on Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
4 Gen -- Yes, from your info, I have the Excluders. The link below encouraged me to get the new design, but I now begin to have doubts, from watching several PMs try to enter and finally leave (never to return ) Sure hope they do. The Conley design in the experiment below shows no real difference between the Conley and the Snyder, so I'm hopeful. http://www.purple-martin.org/ExcluderPr ... stSaxy.htm
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony. I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas. When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle. When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming. Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs. Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
I am mentoring a responsible landlord who started with Duke Synder Excluders in a modified Heath house and Excluder IIs in a modified S&K red barn house.
The SY pairs had no problems with either. Entering and exiting were not a problem.
Sorry you are having problems with the Snyder Excluder.
Thank you for the article. I read it thoroughly and felt good about the results.
Mark.
Last edited by 4th Gen Martin Fan on Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
Have always read mixed reviews on these. I'd not risk returning martins not finding shelter for a cold night. You could switch back to round tomorrow as cold weather moves in, and order some crescents to try in another week or so on a warm day. John Miller
The excluder entrance that you are apparently using is not new. In fact, I believe it was the first variation of the original, and still widely used, crescent entrance. The excluder was developed in 1998 by Duke Snyder. Basically, it added pips to the bottom of the entrance to keep starlings from rolling sideways to breach a crescent. He patented that change.
I'm not sure there was a big problem with the turning starlings, but some landlords started using the excluder in 1999-2000. I have offered some on both houses and natural gourd tunnels, and Texas landlord Tony Frederickson retrofitted many of his 250-300 entrances on lone star housing to the excluder. I am aware of no instances where martins that wanted to enter, could not. However, the excluder is regarded as a more difficult SREH for starlings, and possibly martins, to enter.
A short time later, an Amish gentleman, Willie D. Conley, offered the second entrance shown in the article you posted, which modified the excluder, and in the opinion of many made it an easier entrance to enter. That entrance, the modified excluder, or WDC entrance, is my entrance of choice. It is likely that and other subsequent entrances were developed by manufacturers wanting to avoid paying Duke Snyder a royalty payment.
I think all marketed SREH will exclude most starlings effectively and I am not aware of any that martins will not enter, if and when they decide to. It might be that martins you saw are only migrating through and don't make the effort to enter, or you have martins not committed to a particular cavity at your site, in which case it would be normal for them to land on porches, peer in, but not enter.
Migration is running about three weeks late this year in many areas, which given the weather is a blessing. Only in the last couple of weeks have there been general arrivals with numbers that might allow migration to begin to catch up. Be patient and best of luck.
~~TEAMED WITH A MARTIN GODDESS~~
Member/Mentor-PMCA. I do regular nestchecks and participate in PROJECT MARTINWATCH!! Coordinated 3 geolocator studies-2009, 2010 & 2013. State and Fed licensed bander (retired Jan., 2020)
TY John and John --- I'm gonna tough it out a few more days to see what happens; as I said, I've used the original "key hole" shape that have been used for 50 years I guess. These Snyder designs seemed to be something to solve the Starling problem -- but now I'm beginning to wonder!!! Thanks again, guys.
John Miller wrote:Have always read mixed reviews on these. I'd not risk returning martins not finding shelter for a cold night. You could switch back to round tomorrow as cold weather moves in, and order some crescents to try in another week or so on a warm day. John Miller
I agree with John.
Another thing I would personally recommend, is placing the starling resistant entrances (also as John mentioned, I would start with the crescent doors, and switch to the Excluders if you have starlings breaching the crescents) on 4 of your enlarged, 6"X12" compartments, and leave 4, small 6"X6" compartments with the original, round-keyhole doors.
Thanks Matt F -- I'm seriously thinking about replacing the original openings for now and perhaps reintroducing the new ones after/during nest building. Very confused and unhappy right now!!! Both of my houses have already been remodeled with larger 6 x 12 room, so changing back is not an option. If PMs everywhere else can adopt to the new holes, surely Kentucky Redneck Martins can do the same! Thanks, everyone, I'll try to keep you updated on my dilemma.
my houses were founded on excluders.. Last year I retrofit some houses in the town colony and the excluders were chosen over round.
Now this season every house has the excluders and I have not yet seen a martin in town. Hoping it's just late as I know they have used them previous and the vets at my home used them the first go around.
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony. I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas. When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle. When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming. Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs. Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
John Barrow,
Thank you for the history lesson on SREHs. I was hoping that someone would enlighten us one day.
Are there other patented SREH designs beyond the Snyder Excluder?
Mark.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
lgradyh wrote:Thanks Matt F -- I'm seriously thinking about replacing the original openings for now and perhaps reintroducing the new ones after/during nest building. Very confused and unhappy right now!!! Both of my houses have already been remodeled with larger 6 x 12 room, so changing back is not an option. If PMs everywhere else can adopt to the new holes, surely Kentucky Redneck Martins can do the same! Thanks, everyone, I'll try to keep you updated on my dilemma.
Since none of your compartments can be reverted back to 6"X6", be very cautious using the round holes.
Starlings will take a liking very quick to the 12" deep compartments, and tear up a Martin to take it over if they have to.
Again, like John M. mentioned earlier, switch to round so your Martins can have important shelter for now, and order some crescent doors.
In most situations, the crescents work great at keeping starlings out, while allowing the Martins easy access.
If you find later on, that you're in a high-pressure starling area, and the crescents are being breached, then switch over to your Excluder doors.
Mark,
As far as I know the "pips" on Snyder's excluder is the only SREH design that has ever been patented. And the patent extends to the modified excluder and excluder II. All manufacturers of those designs have had to pay Duke Snyder a royalty to manufacture SREHs with pips.
Willie Conley redesigned his entrance into the Conley II, primarily used by the Troyers and Amish community to avoid the royalty.
Reference my post above, Tony Frederickson retrofitted his Excluder entrances into a *Creob*, a combination of an obround, which is about 2 1/2 inches wide, over a 3 inch cresent, and he had good luck with those. That design is similar to and preceded the clinger entrance which was manufactured by S&K beginning around 2004 or 2005. During the early part of that decade, many people were discussing and designing new products. An Arkansas landlord, Terry Washburn, introduced the use of plastic tunnels with sentra entrances during that period.
The honor of innovating SREHs belongs to Charles McEwen, a Canadian landlord who invented the crescent with 1 and 3/16 inch opening. He gifted that design to PMCA and the martin community. All other SREHs are based on his innovation, with slight variances that are mostly a marketing device. All work effectively if properly placed; none absolutely.
Thank you Matt for including your chart, and good advice as always from John Miller.
~~TEAMED WITH A MARTIN GODDESS~~
Member/Mentor-PMCA. I do regular nestchecks and participate in PROJECT MARTINWATCH!! Coordinated 3 geolocator studies-2009, 2010 & 2013. State and Fed licensed bander (retired Jan., 2020)
I'd like to hear from anyone using the new Snyder SREH replacement doors in their houses. I've remodeled my nests to 6 x 12 and installed the new Snyder doors, but so far I only have one male trying to use them. Several others have come and gone after trying to enter a few times unsuccessfully. 
Now I'm tempted to put my old doors back on; I have some Starling problems, but not too bad. I'm home all day, so I can keep a close eye on my houses. PLEASE, what should I do? I feel so bad to see my PMs circle, land and try to enter and then fly away. I am totally frustrated. 
) Sure hope they do. The Conley design in the experiment below shows no real difference between the Conley and the Snyder, so I'm hopeful. 
Thanks, everyone, I'll try to keep you updated on my dilemma.