Western martin vs. Excluder Gourds
My Western martins, new to the neighborhood, aren't entering the new Excluder gourds I put up this year. They are very interested and pay more attention to them than the piling cavity they used last year (first year). The PMCA says the gourd openings were designed for a smaller subspecies. How do I enlarge them for the Western (arboricola) birds? I have lots of starlings. The martins have been here two weeks.
Hi Mary,
Forum member and arboricola subspecies landlord Ken Buker uses Exlcuder Gourds, in addition to other housing.
I don't think I've ever read about him enlarging the starling resistant entrances on his gourds.
Hopefully he'll enter in here as well.
Here's a thread sometime back from him, describing his setup, with photos:
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23463
Forum member and arboricola subspecies landlord Ken Buker uses Exlcuder Gourds, in addition to other housing.
I don't think I've ever read about him enlarging the starling resistant entrances on his gourds.
Hopefully he'll enter in here as well.
Here's a thread sometime back from him, describing his setup, with photos:
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23463
This morning a female easily entered an Excluder Gourd with a slightly modified opening. Now I wish I hadn't modified it at all. Very glad the martin can get in but worried starlings might follow. Lacking the White Pine needles that pmca.org recommended, I lined the gourds with dried Douglas Fir needles. After spending 5 minutes in the gourd she emerged with a Doug Fir sprig and threw it in the water, below.
Thanks, Matt, for sharing Ken Buker's post. It was very informative about Western martins.
Thanks, Matt, for sharing Ken Buker's post. It was very informative about Western martins.
-
John Miller
- Posts: 4866
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
I don't see discussion in Ken's posts about SREH size. I think you better consult with Ken and others in the great northwest. there is a martin group in Vancouver BC...search for their web site. key words purple martins Georgia basin BC
Indeed I read in the PMCA literature that western purple martins are 5 or more grams heavier, so I'd be worried about the males in particular entering.
Starling risk can be reduced by getting the entry nearly flush and certainly no more than one-eighth inch below the opening, and maybe then can open 1/32 of an inch.
The excluder II entrances are supposed to be about 1/64 inch larger (two hairs maybe - ha) than the standard 1 3/16. Maybe you can go 1/32 larger if the porches are very high, but if Ken or NW experts say not necessary, then that's what you need to determine.
John M
measure with a "no go" gauge. This one has a line marked at 1 3/16 and a second line at 1 7/32.
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/download.php?id=11023
Indeed I read in the PMCA literature that western purple martins are 5 or more grams heavier, so I'd be worried about the males in particular entering.
Starling risk can be reduced by getting the entry nearly flush and certainly no more than one-eighth inch below the opening, and maybe then can open 1/32 of an inch.
The excluder II entrances are supposed to be about 1/64 inch larger (two hairs maybe - ha) than the standard 1 3/16. Maybe you can go 1/32 larger if the porches are very high, but if Ken or NW experts say not necessary, then that's what you need to determine.
John M
measure with a "no go" gauge. This one has a line marked at 1 3/16 and a second line at 1 7/32.
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/download.php?id=11023
-
stan kostka
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:59 pm
- Location: Washington, Seattle
Hi Mary,
Thanks for posting to the Forum.
Years ago I was involved in a project wherein we captured and measured many adult western martins, over several years, mainly in Washington and California. What we found was that on average western birds are likely to be slightly larger than eastern birds, as noted in the literature. But only slightly, and on average, so, some western individuals may in fact be smaller than some eastern individuals. We recorded wing, tail, and bill, and leg, which give a better indication of the size of a bird, rather than weight, since weight of an individual can vary throughout the year, depending on when during the breeding season the bird is weighed, and food abundance. Seems to me I recall some Eastern landlords observing martins having difficulty with various starling resistant entrances as well, and I think to some extent it is a matter of individual birds learning how to navigate them.
In my opinion, the potential problem with SREH in plastic gourds is not that martins cannot enter, but that once inside they may be unable to exit.
Im curious, have you hung these gourds on the pilings, or are they on nearby upland poles ?
Stan Kostka
Arlington WA.
Thanks for posting to the Forum.
Years ago I was involved in a project wherein we captured and measured many adult western martins, over several years, mainly in Washington and California. What we found was that on average western birds are likely to be slightly larger than eastern birds, as noted in the literature. But only slightly, and on average, so, some western individuals may in fact be smaller than some eastern individuals. We recorded wing, tail, and bill, and leg, which give a better indication of the size of a bird, rather than weight, since weight of an individual can vary throughout the year, depending on when during the breeding season the bird is weighed, and food abundance. Seems to me I recall some Eastern landlords observing martins having difficulty with various starling resistant entrances as well, and I think to some extent it is a matter of individual birds learning how to navigate them.
In my opinion, the potential problem with SREH in plastic gourds is not that martins cannot enter, but that once inside they may be unable to exit.
Im curious, have you hung these gourds on the pilings, or are they on nearby upland poles ?
Stan Kostka
Arlington WA.
Hi Stan, my Excluder gourd porches are on the inside and outside and have ridged surfaces, so I think they are as good for exiting as they are for entering. Certainly that ASY female didn't have any trouble getting out this morning. Thanks for alerting me to this potential problem though and I will watch for it.
My gourds are on the telescoping pole setup. The socket is attached to a fixed piling set in a saltwater lagoon. The pilings keep our floating docks in place in this homeowners association neighborhood. They are set about 50'-60' out from the bulkheads. Since my house is only 25' back from the bulkhead, there really is no room for the gourds to be on land without being too close to the houses for the martin's comfort. The downside is that I can do nest checks only at high tide, even with the gourd array lowered all the way. The gourd that was entered this morning faces my kitchen window, but if a bird got into trouble I may not be able to reach it right away.
My gourds are on the telescoping pole setup. The socket is attached to a fixed piling set in a saltwater lagoon. The pilings keep our floating docks in place in this homeowners association neighborhood. They are set about 50'-60' out from the bulkheads. Since my house is only 25' back from the bulkhead, there really is no room for the gourds to be on land without being too close to the houses for the martin's comfort. The downside is that I can do nest checks only at high tide, even with the gourd array lowered all the way. The gourd that was entered this morning faces my kitchen window, but if a bird got into trouble I may not be able to reach it right away.
-
stan kostka
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:59 pm
- Location: Washington, Seattle
Mary,
I think it's great you put up housing after seeing martins using a piling cavity. I'm assuming you are at Greenbank on Whidbey ?, if so, your site is one a very few known martin colonies in Island County.
To the best of my knowledge, your site is only the seventh report/record of martins nesting on Whidbey, and I expect maybe half of the six others no longer have birds breeding there. The only other site in Island County I'm aware of is at English Boom on the north end of Camano.
Based on nestchecks I've done around the North Sound in past years, I would expect eggs no earlier than the first week of June, but you never know, depends on the weather of course.
Best of luck to you. Next time I'm by that way I'll stop and look for your gourds. I looked over the area on Google Earth, but didn't see any docks in the immediate vicinity of Greenbank. I've been collecting info on Washington martins for many years, if you would be willing to send me your address I would very much appreciate it. My email address is lynnandstan@earthlink.net.
Thanks. Stan Kostka, Arlington WA.
I think it's great you put up housing after seeing martins using a piling cavity. I'm assuming you are at Greenbank on Whidbey ?, if so, your site is one a very few known martin colonies in Island County.
To the best of my knowledge, your site is only the seventh report/record of martins nesting on Whidbey, and I expect maybe half of the six others no longer have birds breeding there. The only other site in Island County I'm aware of is at English Boom on the north end of Camano.
Based on nestchecks I've done around the North Sound in past years, I would expect eggs no earlier than the first week of June, but you never know, depends on the weather of course.
Best of luck to you. Next time I'm by that way I'll stop and look for your gourds. I looked over the area on Google Earth, but didn't see any docks in the immediate vicinity of Greenbank. I've been collecting info on Washington martins for many years, if you would be willing to send me your address I would very much appreciate it. My email address is lynnandstan@earthlink.net.
Thanks. Stan Kostka, Arlington WA.
Hi Stan,
Thanks for the response. I'll contact you by email for a meetup. Yes, when the purple martins showed up last summer I called Steve Ellis, president of Whidbey Audubon, for background on PUMAs in the county. On Whidbey Island there are birds visiting boxes on public land at Crockett Lake as well as boxes at Cornet Bay. Former boxes at Possession Point he reported as being abandoned. I've visited the sites on Camano at English Boom and Iverson Spit in the fall (no birds). If you know of other sites on Whidbey or Camano I'd like to hear.
Since martins seem to depend on human intervention to escape predation and disease, Steve advised me it would be important to pay attention. So I'm recruiting the neighbors to take care of their cavities and put up housing if possible. It's difficult because of our small lot sizes and the expense of telescoping poles to ensure regular nest checks. The housing must be located on the fixed pilings in the salt water canals.
It is good to know about when I can expect eggs. I am a very anxious "purple martin landlord" so far.
Thanks for the response. I'll contact you by email for a meetup. Yes, when the purple martins showed up last summer I called Steve Ellis, president of Whidbey Audubon, for background on PUMAs in the county. On Whidbey Island there are birds visiting boxes on public land at Crockett Lake as well as boxes at Cornet Bay. Former boxes at Possession Point he reported as being abandoned. I've visited the sites on Camano at English Boom and Iverson Spit in the fall (no birds). If you know of other sites on Whidbey or Camano I'd like to hear.
Since martins seem to depend on human intervention to escape predation and disease, Steve advised me it would be important to pay attention. So I'm recruiting the neighbors to take care of their cavities and put up housing if possible. It's difficult because of our small lot sizes and the expense of telescoping poles to ensure regular nest checks. The housing must be located on the fixed pilings in the salt water canals.
It is good to know about when I can expect eggs. I am a very anxious "purple martin landlord" so far.
-
ken buker
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:51 pm
- Location: Washington/Silver Lake
- Martin Colony History: Started backyard colony at Silver lake in June 2004 with single pair of SY martins. Built a nest, no eggs, they left by late July. Returned 2005 and colony grew to three pair successfully raising and fledging 15 healthy young. In 2018 this colony was 110 pair strong and thriving. Managed a small colony along the lower Columbia river west of Longview, WA for a few years prior to starting my colony at Silver Lake.
Hi Mary,
I Haven’t checked into the forum for awhile so just caught your post this afternoon.
Wonderful to hear from other NW enthusiast on occasion.
I just purchased a dozen of the new excluder gourds this spring. The ones I have are the modified excluder entrance. I too was a little reluctant about entrance opening so I used a utility knife to just scrape the walls of the valleys and peaks ever so slightly. More out of concern than observed fact. I have not seen my martins have a difficulty so far. Like Stan I also had some concerns about exiting the cavity once inside, and so the first time I actually installed external and internal porches. I have porches on all my super gourds (external only), but with the excluder I used both.
The other must for me is to fill the cavity with ample pre-nest material especially with all the artificial gourds. I have used pine straw (purchased and gathered), and bedding straw used in the livestock barns at the fair. A bale of it is $5.00 and will last several seasons.
My colony at Silver Lake was 85 pair strong last season (2014) and all indications this year appear that there are more birds than ever and earlier than years past. The morning dawn singing is clearly a sound to be heard. Interestingly, as all things in nature, there are martins that prefer siting at the rack on a perch rod to perform his ritual than flying far above the colony. Maybe their so secure and confident of their performance that attracting new females isn’t an issue. Real Casanovas I guess. No need for speakers or going outside, I can hear them with the windows closed.
Will be doing a nest inspection this week. Always do my first complete one the first week in June.
Ken Buker
I Haven’t checked into the forum for awhile so just caught your post this afternoon.
Wonderful to hear from other NW enthusiast on occasion.
I just purchased a dozen of the new excluder gourds this spring. The ones I have are the modified excluder entrance. I too was a little reluctant about entrance opening so I used a utility knife to just scrape the walls of the valleys and peaks ever so slightly. More out of concern than observed fact. I have not seen my martins have a difficulty so far. Like Stan I also had some concerns about exiting the cavity once inside, and so the first time I actually installed external and internal porches. I have porches on all my super gourds (external only), but with the excluder I used both.
The other must for me is to fill the cavity with ample pre-nest material especially with all the artificial gourds. I have used pine straw (purchased and gathered), and bedding straw used in the livestock barns at the fair. A bale of it is $5.00 and will last several seasons.
My colony at Silver Lake was 85 pair strong last season (2014) and all indications this year appear that there are more birds than ever and earlier than years past. The morning dawn singing is clearly a sound to be heard. Interestingly, as all things in nature, there are martins that prefer siting at the rack on a perch rod to perform his ritual than flying far above the colony. Maybe their so secure and confident of their performance that attracting new females isn’t an issue. Real Casanovas I guess. No need for speakers or going outside, I can hear them with the windows closed.
Will be doing a nest inspection this week. Always do my first complete one the first week in June.
Ken Buker
I feel like crying with frustration. The Kitsap Audubon folks who tend the gourds at Seabeck and Brownsville Marina urged me to remove the dried fir needles I had placed in the gourds - saying the birds like to add their own grasses, leaves etc. So I did. Nest check last night showed no sign of nesting at all, even in the piling cavity (which has a removable top)!
This morning an ASY female was inside one of the Excluder gourds and had a hard time getting out. It looked like she hung up on the teeth. I plan to take it down and whittle some more tonight. I can only reach the gourds at high tide when my floating dock is within ladder reach of the bottom of the telescoping pole.
Mary
This morning an ASY female was inside one of the Excluder gourds and had a hard time getting out. It looked like she hung up on the teeth. I plan to take it down and whittle some more tonight. I can only reach the gourds at high tide when my floating dock is within ladder reach of the bottom of the telescoping pole.
Mary
-
ken buker
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:51 pm
- Location: Washington/Silver Lake
- Martin Colony History: Started backyard colony at Silver lake in June 2004 with single pair of SY martins. Built a nest, no eggs, they left by late July. Returned 2005 and colony grew to three pair successfully raising and fledging 15 healthy young. In 2018 this colony was 110 pair strong and thriving. Managed a small colony along the lower Columbia river west of Longview, WA for a few years prior to starting my colony at Silver Lake.
Hi Mary, Contrary to what you were told, with artificial gourds pre-nest material is still recommended because they just are not designed with a good gripping surface below the entrance, and are somewhat awkward for a martin to position themselves for exiting especially until there's a base established. Placing material to the fill line establishes that base and in essence a platform for them to stand on when inside. Even without the inside porch I still place a generous amount of material in the cavity. The exception was when I used a number of natural gourds, then you don't need pre-nest if any because the inside surface of a natural gourd is ideal and provides an interior they love. In some cases they do like using their own material whatever that might be. I had one female in a natural gourd three years ago build a mud dam just inside the round entrance and carried about 20 nails she found at an old burn pile. I've also seen them carrie some of the pre nest material out of the cavity, and in some cases lay eggs on an almost bare floor in the compartment box of my wooden T14.
It's still plenty early and lots of time for birds to accept your excluders. I would definitely reconsider replacing the pre-nest material. Fir needles probably was the best choice but pine needles or straw works well. Iv'e even used regular hay before and though it doesn't drain as well if wet it works fine and will do in a pinch. Best of luck and keep me posted.
It's still plenty early and lots of time for birds to accept your excluders. I would definitely reconsider replacing the pre-nest material. Fir needles probably was the best choice but pine needles or straw works well. Iv'e even used regular hay before and though it doesn't drain as well if wet it works fine and will do in a pinch. Best of luck and keep me posted.
-
Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
A suggestion: Make the inside porches exactly match the outside porches, and if they can get in, then they surely can get out.
I have found that martins will not use many of our gourds that are difficult to exit, they simply move to a gourd where they easily exit. I think its very important to make sure that they can exit easily.
I have found that martins will not use many of our gourds that are difficult to exit, they simply move to a gourd where they easily exit. I think its very important to make sure that they can exit easily.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
OK, I do have matching porches on the insides of the Excluders. I whittled down the teeth on two of them and added some dried Blue Oat Grass as it drains freely. It is raining this morning and three soggy birds are perched out there. Will try to offer mealworms.
-
ken buker
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:51 pm
- Location: Washington/Silver Lake
- Martin Colony History: Started backyard colony at Silver lake in June 2004 with single pair of SY martins. Built a nest, no eggs, they left by late July. Returned 2005 and colony grew to three pair successfully raising and fledging 15 healthy young. In 2018 this colony was 110 pair strong and thriving. Managed a small colony along the lower Columbia river west of Longview, WA for a few years prior to starting my colony at Silver Lake.
Hi Mary,
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is: when I received my excluder gourds after attaching the first porch (external/internal), I didn’t like the placement in relation to the entrance. The gourds are marked with a starter dimple at the recommended position for mounting them, but in my opinion they are too far below the entrance. I posted my concern and received feedback recommending they be mounted ¼” -1/2” below the entrance so I retooled mine and mounted them higher than the pre-drilled starter holes. Don't know how much difference that might make if any.
With the inconvenience of a higher tide to reach your housing, I’m sure the less frequently you need to do it the better things are. That having been said, once you get things figured out, it gets easier and will bring you much pleasure.
Ken Buker
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is: when I received my excluder gourds after attaching the first porch (external/internal), I didn’t like the placement in relation to the entrance. The gourds are marked with a starter dimple at the recommended position for mounting them, but in my opinion they are too far below the entrance. I posted my concern and received feedback recommending they be mounted ¼” -1/2” below the entrance so I retooled mine and mounted them higher than the pre-drilled starter holes. Don't know how much difference that might make if any.
With the inconvenience of a higher tide to reach your housing, I’m sure the less frequently you need to do it the better things are. That having been said, once you get things figured out, it gets easier and will bring you much pleasure.
Ken Buker
Thanks, Ken, I am hopeful. They must have redesigned after your input because the porches are real close to the bottoms of the openings - perfect for keeping Starlings out.
When I get eggs I will be asking your advice about land based predators. We have racoons here and I have seen river otters on the docks. I have a collar for the telescoping pole but haven't been using it because with the piling-top installation it is already very difficult to do nest checks. I'm going to try to attach a picture so you can see my setup. So, what critters do you have to deal with?
When I get eggs I will be asking your advice about land based predators. We have racoons here and I have seen river otters on the docks. I have a collar for the telescoping pole but haven't been using it because with the piling-top installation it is already very difficult to do nest checks. I'm going to try to attach a picture so you can see my setup. So, what critters do you have to deal with?
-
John Miller
- Posts: 4866
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
I always adhere small strips of outdoor traction tape -- band aid size pieces, around the inside bottoms of my plastic gourds to help hold nest material together, as the female spins her nest, or if strong winds rock the gourd. If one really packs down a lot of pre-nest, it may not be necessary, but despite my best nesting building, I find some martins scratch down to the plastic floor.
Thanks so much for mentioning the wind. My gourds are exposed to constant wind and I have noticed the shaking even when they are down for nest check. Of course the piling cavities (that the Western Purple Martins are apparently used to) aren't affected by wind. The vibration is one of the things I am concerned about, as my new-to-the site birds decide whether they are going to build nests or not.
-
ken buker
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:51 pm
- Location: Washington/Silver Lake
- Martin Colony History: Started backyard colony at Silver lake in June 2004 with single pair of SY martins. Built a nest, no eggs, they left by late July. Returned 2005 and colony grew to three pair successfully raising and fledging 15 healthy young. In 2018 this colony was 110 pair strong and thriving. Managed a small colony along the lower Columbia river west of Longview, WA for a few years prior to starting my colony at Silver Lake.
Hi Mary,
I do use predator guards on my poles. Raccoons, stray cats and squirrels are probably my greatest concern from the ground. In my area I also use owl detour ant (owl guards) since in 2006 I nearly lost my entire (13 pair) colony as a result of an owl. My colony was only three years new at the time and I was afraid the birds might abandon the site. I wrote about that experience in previous post and the summer addition of Update Magazine a couple of years ago.
Last night I did a nest inspection on two racks checking 33 cavities. Not a lot of eggs yet (3 confirmed nest containing eggs) but surprisingly there were also 3 female martins in three different cavities that remained inside while I lowered the racks and checked. One was on a single egg, the other two remained on the nest and I assume there were egg clutches underneath them. I didn’t disturb them and all remained inside during the entire ordeal. If the weather had been nicer I would have looked at each for bands, but it was misty and had been raining so I didn’t.
Will be checking the other racks this week and start weekly inspections the week of June 14th.
I am curious if you actually tried the meal worms and if so, if you had any luck.
Ken
I do use predator guards on my poles. Raccoons, stray cats and squirrels are probably my greatest concern from the ground. In my area I also use owl detour ant (owl guards) since in 2006 I nearly lost my entire (13 pair) colony as a result of an owl. My colony was only three years new at the time and I was afraid the birds might abandon the site. I wrote about that experience in previous post and the summer addition of Update Magazine a couple of years ago.
Last night I did a nest inspection on two racks checking 33 cavities. Not a lot of eggs yet (3 confirmed nest containing eggs) but surprisingly there were also 3 female martins in three different cavities that remained inside while I lowered the racks and checked. One was on a single egg, the other two remained on the nest and I assume there were egg clutches underneath them. I didn’t disturb them and all remained inside during the entire ordeal. If the weather had been nicer I would have looked at each for bands, but it was misty and had been raining so I didn’t.
Will be checking the other racks this week and start weekly inspections the week of June 14th.
I am curious if you actually tried the meal worms and if so, if you had any luck.
Ken
Hi Ken,
Yes, I tried the meal worms. This time I put them on a white plate so they would be more visible to the birds. I put the plate on a hanging tray under a swallow perch in my yard that the Martins sit on occasionally. The Martins didn't notice them and the rain drowned the worms. I've tried putting meal worms in a feed tray attached to the gourd rack and they get ignored there as well, even though the Martins perch right above them.
I haven't put the owl guards on two of the gourds because they are so hard to deal with - the gourd rack won't lower to where I can reach it when they are all in place on account of the way the telescoping pole is attached to the piling. I would like to wait until I know that there are eggs in a gourd before I put its owl guard on. Or better yet wait until the eggs have hatched. Comments, please.
Yes, I tried the meal worms. This time I put them on a white plate so they would be more visible to the birds. I put the plate on a hanging tray under a swallow perch in my yard that the Martins sit on occasionally. The Martins didn't notice them and the rain drowned the worms. I've tried putting meal worms in a feed tray attached to the gourd rack and they get ignored there as well, even though the Martins perch right above them.
I haven't put the owl guards on two of the gourds because they are so hard to deal with - the gourd rack won't lower to where I can reach it when they are all in place on account of the way the telescoping pole is attached to the piling. I would like to wait until I know that there are eggs in a gourd before I put its owl guard on. Or better yet wait until the eggs have hatched. Comments, please.