At this time I only offer round 2" round holes on my houses which the martins seem to like. As an experiment I would like to change a couple of my round holes to crescents just to see the reaction by the martins and how they adapt to a different style opening
Here may be a problem...My round holes are in 3/4" wood material. Can I add a 3/16" crescents to the front of the round holes an still be accessible for the martins or, will it be necessary to completely change the doors to a thinner material to make this work?
CRESCENTS OVER EXISTING RD.HOLES
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Dale, if you do that, and if you put it high enough, it should work. I went into the garage, slid a crescent over a round hole, and it looks to me like they should be able to get in, but I don't know if they need the extra space for their wings. I have never tried it.
That creates another problem, and that is that after positioning it so that they can get in, the porch will need to be raised so that the bottom of the crescent will be witnin the required 1/4in distance to the porch.
If you try it, let us know if it worked. Most people enlarge the area around the old hole.
My question is however, why are you afraid to go to the crescents? Seems like eveyone admits that they work good especially if you enlarge the old hole. Instead of crescents, most people I think are going to the WDC openings, as the martins learn to get into them quicker.
That creates another problem, and that is that after positioning it so that they can get in, the porch will need to be raised so that the bottom of the crescent will be witnin the required 1/4in distance to the porch.
If you try it, let us know if it worked. Most people enlarge the area around the old hole.
My question is however, why are you afraid to go to the crescents? Seems like eveyone admits that they work good especially if you enlarge the old hole. Instead of crescents, most people I think are going to the WDC openings, as the martins learn to get into them quicker.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Dale Davis
Hi Emil, Thank you for your reply. Emil, it is not that I am afraid to change over, it is that to this point I have not had the need to do so. I am one of the lucky ones that have not had a problem with S&S. Knowing it is just a question of time is the reason I thought I would do a little experimenting.
Thanks again buddy.
Dale
Thanks again buddy.
Dale
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Laverne
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:58 pm
- Location: TX/Alvin
- Martin Colony History: Erected 1st house in 1997. Birds were checking it out before Mike got down from the ladder. Six cavities had a little colony 1st year. Grown to 88 cavities all gourds with near 100% occupancy. Most important factor for success is rain = bugs.
EDIT - just read your post replying to Emil's - so I know now that you don't have a starling problem. I will leave my original reply as it was written, however, for anybody else who is having starling trouble. 
...another question, Dale... are you having trouble with Starlings getting into your PM housing?
If not, then there is no need to switch.
If so, then you should switch every entrance hole. Testing a "few" entrance holes will not work. The PMs would prefer a nice big round hole and they will avoid using the SREH'd cavity. Of course they would! However, the Purple Martins can't think ahead and recognize the fact that the Starlings will come and invade their nests and break their eggs and kill their nestlings and maybe even kill them. The purpose of the SREH is to prevent the Starling from entering the nest cavity of the Purple Martin.
Because you have an established colony, I believe you can make the change during the off season. I did this several years ago. My houses were made from 3/4" plywood with round holes. I cut the holes wider - from 1-7/8" to 3-1/2" and then attached a cover piece of 1/4" plywood with the SREH (obround in my case) over the old holes. This worked well at keeping the starlings out and when the martins returned they had no trouble going right in.
In an area where Starlings are present, the round hole is an invitation for invasion. It is life threatening to the Purple Martins who claim that nest. The Purple Martin is no match for the European Starling and I consider it my responsibility as a Purple Martin landlord to protect my bird's housing from dangerous nest competitors. Besides, I didn't spend my time and money on Purple Martin housing so a bunch of S&S could nest in it...
...another question, Dale... are you having trouble with Starlings getting into your PM housing?
If not, then there is no need to switch.
If so, then you should switch every entrance hole. Testing a "few" entrance holes will not work. The PMs would prefer a nice big round hole and they will avoid using the SREH'd cavity. Of course they would! However, the Purple Martins can't think ahead and recognize the fact that the Starlings will come and invade their nests and break their eggs and kill their nestlings and maybe even kill them. The purpose of the SREH is to prevent the Starling from entering the nest cavity of the Purple Martin.
Because you have an established colony, I believe you can make the change during the off season. I did this several years ago. My houses were made from 3/4" plywood with round holes. I cut the holes wider - from 1-7/8" to 3-1/2" and then attached a cover piece of 1/4" plywood with the SREH (obround in my case) over the old holes. This worked well at keeping the starlings out and when the martins returned they had no trouble going right in.
In an area where Starlings are present, the round hole is an invitation for invasion. It is life threatening to the Purple Martins who claim that nest. The Purple Martin is no match for the European Starling and I consider it my responsibility as a Purple Martin landlord to protect my bird's housing from dangerous nest competitors. Besides, I didn't spend my time and money on Purple Martin housing so a bunch of S&S could nest in it...
Sincerely,
Laverne
Laverne
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Dale Davis
Hi Laverne,
Thank you for your reply and the information on resizing the rounds to accept a crescent opening.
Although I have not had a problem with S&S I am just paranoid I guess reading about the problems others have had I guess.
As you said they would probably avoid the crescents if rounds were available. Anyway it was just a thought I had and once again I thank you for your reply.
Dale
Thank you for your reply and the information on resizing the rounds to accept a crescent opening.
Although I have not had a problem with S&S I am just paranoid I guess reading about the problems others have had I guess.
As you said they would probably avoid the crescents if rounds were available. Anyway it was just a thought I had and once again I thank you for your reply.
Dale
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Dale, I had round holes for many years, and I still like them better than the SREH. Even though we had starlings, I kept the starlings away by trapping and shooting them. They go to wooden traps much quicker than they go to a gourd. Also, they love the T-14 houses with round holes. Since I am retired, and since we don't travel a lot (which means that I am usually home every week or part of it), it was rather easy to keep the starlings away. Also, they come earlier than the martins, so I got rid of a bunch before the martins got here.
The reason I went to SREH is because I know that I had starlings, and I know that they can sneak into gourds very quickly (as my neighbor found out because he was working all day long), I decided to go to SREH simply to have a more peaceful time around here not having to worry about starlings. The sparrows don't seem to be as agressive as starlings.
Last year, I added some roundholed gourds late in the nesting cycle, and some of the martins used them, but the starlings never came here to go into them. If you monitor the houses, and if you get rid of them quickly, they quit coming. If you work all day, then they quickly decide to stay, and then they are a big problem. It surprised me how quickly the starlings learn that they are not welcome!
The reason I went to SREH is because I know that I had starlings, and I know that they can sneak into gourds very quickly (as my neighbor found out because he was working all day long), I decided to go to SREH simply to have a more peaceful time around here not having to worry about starlings. The sparrows don't seem to be as agressive as starlings.
Last year, I added some roundholed gourds late in the nesting cycle, and some of the martins used them, but the starlings never came here to go into them. If you monitor the houses, and if you get rid of them quickly, they quit coming. If you work all day, then they quickly decide to stay, and then they are a big problem. It surprised me how quickly the starlings learn that they are not welcome!
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Eddie McKnight
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:02 am
- Location: Moncks Corner, SC
You cannot add a crescent over a 2" round hole without enlarging the hole. The crescent opening is 3" wide at the bottom. If not, the martins cannot get in when they flatten their wings. I have had crescents for 10 years and have no problem attracting martins. Every now and then a starling gets in. When that happens and I see it, I hold a fish net on the end of a pole over the entrance and tap on the house post. They come right out into the net!! You know what to do next.....
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Dale Davis
Eddie, Thank you for your reply. I understand what you have explained.
Thanks again to you Emil for your second response.
I have it figured out now on what to do.
Thanks again to you Emil for your second response.
I have it figured out now on what to do.
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Sandy - NC
- Posts: 617
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:40 pm
- Location: Rocky Mount, NC
Dale, if the SREH is on a tunnel, then you can add it to your existing setup without changing a thing. Just mount the tunnel using 90 degree angle brackets. The birds enter the tunnel, then crawl right threw the round holes. I have had several customers to do it, however, if you have porches on your house, then you may have to work around that.
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Dale Davis
Hi Sandy, That's another good alternative. I do have porches but, can be easily removed. Thanks Sandy.
IMO WDC's are easier on the martins and don't have the rare problem of a PM getting hung up in the crescent. I have had two Beautiful Sy and ASY Males get hung up and die. For what I have observed wing getting folded back during a scuffle now the PM is stuck with his body inside and his wings outside the entry hole.
I think the Crescent half moon slooping design with the sharp corner's make this phenomenon a higher risk when using sreh's. I have not experienced this with WDC's yet or with my modified excluder's with the hump's trimmed. Some has had sucess with rounding out the corners of the Crescent, but I believe it still can occur due to the half moon slope.
I think the Crescent half moon slooping design with the sharp corner's make this phenomenon a higher risk when using sreh's. I have not experienced this with WDC's yet or with my modified excluder's with the hump's trimmed. Some has had sucess with rounding out the corners of the Crescent, but I believe it still can occur due to the half moon slope.
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Guest
Hi Dale, I tried wdc entrances in 3/4'' ceder on a T-14. I used a router and a cove bit to go around both the inside and outside of the hole which reduced the thickness of the wood to 3/8'' thick. I noticed the birds still had to struggle to get in. Maybe the thickness of the wood is still to much.I watched one martin get caught by a coopers hawk as he was too slow getting out and flying off. I have never lost a bird or nest to s&s as I trap and shoot .As Emil says they learn quickley that they are not welcome. I also noticed that the birds in the round holes went in and out of their compartments much more. One pair that nested in the house with wdc entrance built their nest in the front of the compartment; not sure why.I guess what I am trying to say is if it isn't broke don't fix it. Round holes can be ok if monitored closley.
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Dale Davis
RC & Jack, Thank you for your replies. I appreciate hearing the pros and cons. Since I am not having the problem with S&S basically I am looking for the best alternative in case it should come up. Lot of good feedback from all of you who have answered the post. Thanks to everyone again.
Dale
Dale
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Leverett Doehring/Mo
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:04 pm
- Location: Villa Ridge, Mo
- Martin Colony History: 1st birds 1990. 1 12 room metal house, colony started.
current 2 tr14s, 1 tr18, and 56 gourds, usually average @ 70 pair. 102 rooms available.
above mounted on 4 structures..
Dale
After 1 years usage I converted a t14 from round to adjustiable cresents and it is still in use but is never adjusted any more. The change is easy, scribe a straight line across the bottom of the existing round hole the proper width, (or use an existing cresent cut out) and cut away the necessary material. The bottom of mine are radiused inside and out to the center of the new cut. Next using a solid material 1/8 to 1/4" thick fabricate an oversize , square top half of a cresent opening (no bottom on it), next cut 2 vertical slots @ 1/8" wide, place these where the origional solid wood front is behind them, this provides a slide up and down, use 2 brass screws @ 3/4" long. To make it easy to adjust later cut this slot so when it is up the new and old opening match and when it is down the opening is 1 3/16", also radius the top of you new cresent opening. The porch should not have to change, hope this helps.
This concept is not new, it was on this forum some years ago.
After 1 years usage I converted a t14 from round to adjustiable cresents and it is still in use but is never adjusted any more. The change is easy, scribe a straight line across the bottom of the existing round hole the proper width, (or use an existing cresent cut out) and cut away the necessary material. The bottom of mine are radiused inside and out to the center of the new cut. Next using a solid material 1/8 to 1/4" thick fabricate an oversize , square top half of a cresent opening (no bottom on it), next cut 2 vertical slots @ 1/8" wide, place these where the origional solid wood front is behind them, this provides a slide up and down, use 2 brass screws @ 3/4" long. To make it easy to adjust later cut this slot so when it is up the new and old opening match and when it is down the opening is 1 3/16", also radius the top of you new cresent opening. The porch should not have to change, hope this helps.
This concept is not new, it was on this forum some years ago.
itsjustLEV