I think that the sparrows should be killed if possible. I can fully understand clipping their tail feathers on school property, but its not done that way at my house.
And the tail feathers grow back, then you have the same problem again, or you give the problem to some other landlord. I kill every one that I can, smash their eggs, completely destroy everything. I do not want to harm other landlords with a problem that I can eliminate. I want to protect our native birds.
Same with starlings, I have SREH on my housing, but I still continue to trap or shoot every starling that I can to help our native birds. I grew up on a farm where we killed and ate (chickens, pigs, ducks, etc). The city folks often do not understand that someone must do that kind of thing
My HOSP traps arrived today...gulp...
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
Ok I've been sparrow free for a little while now I just saw a male go into my expanded trio house compartment that had no eggs a couple of days ago. I shall set my trap and make sure no PM's enter and yes, he is one dead bird when I catch him!
PMCA member
2010-2013?
2014 approx 25 fleged
2015 17 pr 37 fledged?
2010-2013?
2014 approx 25 fleged
2015 17 pr 37 fledged?
I have been HOSP free until the last two days. A male is lighting near a empty Bluebird box every morning. I popped him a while ago with the 12 ga.
All I need remember is the nest of Bluebirds they killed this year and my 68 year old mother nearly in tears because "something killed my Bluebirds, even the mother".
I went to her house and sure enough, the ENTIRE nest of babies was dead and the male Bluebird dead along with them. The HOSP had gotten inside and held him down, pecked his head, killing him. Then:
They plucked all the feathers from the back of his head and neck to line their own nest with. The back of his head and neck was bald.
So, I help peeps for a living. I'm helping my birds and everyone else's birds by dispatching everyt HOSP and Starling I can get. They are my enemy.
I fed these birds for over 20 years not knowing what they were doing. I often wondered why there were so many HOSP year over year, while the other birds numbers were DECLINING. When I started learning about Martins, I started learning how destructive the HOSP and Starling are.
When I saw first hand what the HOSP actually do, they became my enemy and will be my enemy for the remainder of my life....
All I need remember is the nest of Bluebirds they killed this year and my 68 year old mother nearly in tears because "something killed my Bluebirds, even the mother".
I went to her house and sure enough, the ENTIRE nest of babies was dead and the male Bluebird dead along with them. The HOSP had gotten inside and held him down, pecked his head, killing him. Then:
They plucked all the feathers from the back of his head and neck to line their own nest with. The back of his head and neck was bald.
So, I help peeps for a living. I'm helping my birds and everyone else's birds by dispatching everyt HOSP and Starling I can get. They are my enemy.
I fed these birds for over 20 years not knowing what they were doing. I often wondered why there were so many HOSP year over year, while the other birds numbers were DECLINING. When I started learning about Martins, I started learning how destructive the HOSP and Starling are.
When I saw first hand what the HOSP actually do, they became my enemy and will be my enemy for the remainder of my life....
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mechlingfamily
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:54 am
- Location: Royse City, TX
- Martin Colony History: 2015 ~1 pr 5 hatch-0 fledged
2016 ~ 1pr ~ 5 hatch&fledged
2017 ~ 1 pr ~ 4 hatch&fledged
2018 ~ 2 pr ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatch&fledged
2019 ~ 2 pr~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2021 ~ 23 breeding pair ~ 151 eggs laid ~ 106 hatched ~ 105 fledged
Housing:
2015 - 2018 Vintage inherited Coates Original 12 room aluminum housing modified with SREH and remodeled to 6 Suite Watersedge configuration. Added aluminum vented nesting trays.
2019 ~ added 2 Troyer Vertical Gourds with Tunnel Conley II entrance
2020 ~ converted entrances on gourds to SREH with new plates after Starlings still breached the Conley II entrances
2021 ~ old set up plus added Troyer Super gourds on 24 gourd super system w/ SREH plates added
2022 ~ unchanged from 2021
Trapping HOSP & shooting Starlings
PMCA members - 3rd generation PM Landlords
I didn't intend to start a debate...I simply was looking for support as someone embarking on the more unpleasant side of landlording.
There is a difference between KNOWING what the right the thing is to do and still FEELING CONFLICTED about doing it. I don't think it's necessary to pass judgement on each other or shame anyone for sharing their opinion. I asked for help and I appreciate the people willing to understand that not everyone is equipped with the gumption to carry out the act of killing. For those of you that are...that's great for you. I am trying very hard to educate myself and I feel I made it clear that I am aware of the NEED. If I weren't willing to follow through, I wouldn't have bought the traps. We dispatched our first HOSP yesterday. But for what it is worth, I DID appreciate the alternative suggestions that were made. I really am wanting to rely on this forum for help, but I also don't want to be made to feel inferior if I (or anyone else) don't automatically have the Rambo approach to killing the invaders. I respect the wide variety of opinions and willingness to share knowledge. At the end of the day we are committed to do whatever we can to protect our Martins. I am sorry that my post and it's replies seemed to frustrate some. That was not the intention. I obviously will have to learn to get a thicker skin...but I also hope that the more seasoned folks on here will try to remember they too were once beginners. What comes easily for some, just does...it's not a fault if someone else is just wired differently.
Thanks for letting me share MY feelings and my experience...
There is a difference between KNOWING what the right the thing is to do and still FEELING CONFLICTED about doing it. I don't think it's necessary to pass judgement on each other or shame anyone for sharing their opinion. I asked for help and I appreciate the people willing to understand that not everyone is equipped with the gumption to carry out the act of killing. For those of you that are...that's great for you. I am trying very hard to educate myself and I feel I made it clear that I am aware of the NEED. If I weren't willing to follow through, I wouldn't have bought the traps. We dispatched our first HOSP yesterday. But for what it is worth, I DID appreciate the alternative suggestions that were made. I really am wanting to rely on this forum for help, but I also don't want to be made to feel inferior if I (or anyone else) don't automatically have the Rambo approach to killing the invaders. I respect the wide variety of opinions and willingness to share knowledge. At the end of the day we are committed to do whatever we can to protect our Martins. I am sorry that my post and it's replies seemed to frustrate some. That was not the intention. I obviously will have to learn to get a thicker skin...but I also hope that the more seasoned folks on here will try to remember they too were once beginners. What comes easily for some, just does...it's not a fault if someone else is just wired differently.
Thanks for letting me share MY feelings and my experience...
Debbie & Warren ~ PMCA Members
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
Ah Mechling family! As you can see I am also conflicted, I am a NURSE! Suppose to save lives not take them. BUT I too had a female Blue Bird killed two yrs ago found lying on top of her babies for several days. I thought she was just a good mother till she began to smell! I took her out and ordered mealy worms and helped the father. Do u know he raised all 5 to fledge and came back one day to the bird bath with all five of them! Heart warming! Also had 11 baby martins killed! Heart wrenching. Do I kill as they do! 
PMCA member
2010-2013?
2014 approx 25 fleged
2015 17 pr 37 fledged?
2010-2013?
2014 approx 25 fleged
2015 17 pr 37 fledged?
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:55 am Post subject: Reply with quote
I didn't intend to start a debate...I simply was looking for support as someone embarking on the more unpleasant side of landlording.
There is a difference between KNOWING what the right the thing is to do and still FEELING CONFLICTED about doing it. I don't think it's necessary to pass judgement on each other or shame anyone for sharing their opinion. I asked for help and I appreciate the people willing to understand that not everyone is equipped with the gumption to carry out the act of killing. For those of you that are...that's great for you. I am trying very hard to educate myself and I feel I made it clear that I am aware of the NEED. If I weren't willing to follow through, I wouldn't have bought the traps. We dispatched our first HOSP yesterday. But for what it is worth, I DID appreciate the alternative suggestions that were made. I really am wanting to rely on this forum for help, but I also don't want to be made to feel inferior if I (or anyone else) don't automatically have the Rambo approach to killing the invaders. I respect the wide variety of opinions and willingness to share knowledge. At the end of the day we are committed to do whatever we can to protect our Martins. I am sorry that my post and it's replies seemed to frustrate some. That was not the intention. I obviously will have to learn to get a thicker skin...but I also hope that the more seasoned folks on here will try to remember they too were once beginners. What comes easily for some, just does...it's not a fault if someone else is just wired differently.
Thanks for letting me share MY feelings and my experience...
_________________
PMCA Member
2015 ~ first year ~ 1 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs!
Still soooo much to learn!!!!
What debate.
It IS what it IS.
The HOSP and Starlings are every Americans PROBLEM. They WILL DESTROY our natural birds....
And, it's not their fault really. After all, they were NOT supposed to be here in the first place. Man did this not knowing what would happen. It was not understood, the term "invasive species-which carries with it capabilities of killing.
Our (American) birds do NOT have this capability/instinct. American birds PEACEFULLY co-exist; maintaining the balance. The balance has been UPSET because of the invasive species and thir capability to NOT CO-EXIST and KILL our American birds which do co-exist.
There is no debate.
The HOSP and Starling MUST be dispatched or elminated.....however you choose to color it. I'm a realist, kill the parasites. Period.
It is what it is.
I didn't intend to start a debate...I simply was looking for support as someone embarking on the more unpleasant side of landlording.
There is a difference between KNOWING what the right the thing is to do and still FEELING CONFLICTED about doing it. I don't think it's necessary to pass judgement on each other or shame anyone for sharing their opinion. I asked for help and I appreciate the people willing to understand that not everyone is equipped with the gumption to carry out the act of killing. For those of you that are...that's great for you. I am trying very hard to educate myself and I feel I made it clear that I am aware of the NEED. If I weren't willing to follow through, I wouldn't have bought the traps. We dispatched our first HOSP yesterday. But for what it is worth, I DID appreciate the alternative suggestions that were made. I really am wanting to rely on this forum for help, but I also don't want to be made to feel inferior if I (or anyone else) don't automatically have the Rambo approach to killing the invaders. I respect the wide variety of opinions and willingness to share knowledge. At the end of the day we are committed to do whatever we can to protect our Martins. I am sorry that my post and it's replies seemed to frustrate some. That was not the intention. I obviously will have to learn to get a thicker skin...but I also hope that the more seasoned folks on here will try to remember they too were once beginners. What comes easily for some, just does...it's not a fault if someone else is just wired differently.
Thanks for letting me share MY feelings and my experience...
_________________
PMCA Member
2015 ~ first year ~ 1 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs!
Still soooo much to learn!!!!
What debate.
It IS what it IS.
The HOSP and Starlings are every Americans PROBLEM. They WILL DESTROY our natural birds....
And, it's not their fault really. After all, they were NOT supposed to be here in the first place. Man did this not knowing what would happen. It was not understood, the term "invasive species-which carries with it capabilities of killing.
Our (American) birds do NOT have this capability/instinct. American birds PEACEFULLY co-exist; maintaining the balance. The balance has been UPSET because of the invasive species and thir capability to NOT CO-EXIST and KILL our American birds which do co-exist.
There is no debate.
The HOSP and Starling MUST be dispatched or elminated.....however you choose to color it. I'm a realist, kill the parasites. Period.
It is what it is.
Last edited by tim414 on Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:32 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Craig Dyer
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 2:24 pm
- Location: Nevada, TX
- Martin Colony History: Area is rural. Offer 28 compartments...metal housing (Lonestar Goliad) & Supergourds all w/crescent entrance holes. Purple martins are abundant here and eager for quality, well maintained, safe housing. Expect near 100% occupancy this season.
Like many new landlords, initially I too was hesitant to kill house sparrows. I was quickly educated as to their destructive behavior. I don't enjoy killing anything (well maybe fire ants), but if one wants to maintain a healthy purple martin colony, house sparrows MUST be controlled. I shoot them, not out of enjoyment, but as a unpleasant necessity.
Craig Dyer
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Gary Berger
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:17 pm
- Location: TX/Houston
For those of you new to the Forum, Mike USED to transport his trapped sparrows across town, and let them go. Progress has been made!
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mechlingfamily
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:54 am
- Location: Royse City, TX
- Martin Colony History: 2015 ~1 pr 5 hatch-0 fledged
2016 ~ 1pr ~ 5 hatch&fledged
2017 ~ 1 pr ~ 4 hatch&fledged
2018 ~ 2 pr ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatch&fledged
2019 ~ 2 pr~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2021 ~ 23 breeding pair ~ 151 eggs laid ~ 106 hatched ~ 105 fledged
Housing:
2015 - 2018 Vintage inherited Coates Original 12 room aluminum housing modified with SREH and remodeled to 6 Suite Watersedge configuration. Added aluminum vented nesting trays.
2019 ~ added 2 Troyer Vertical Gourds with Tunnel Conley II entrance
2020 ~ converted entrances on gourds to SREH with new plates after Starlings still breached the Conley II entrances
2021 ~ old set up plus added Troyer Super gourds on 24 gourd super system w/ SREH plates added
2022 ~ unchanged from 2021
Trapping HOSP & shooting Starlings
PMCA members - 3rd generation PM Landlords
OK y'all here's the thing.
I wasn't looking for anyone to CONVINCE me that it needs to happen!
I UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT THAT...AND ALWAYS DID BEFORE I EVEN POSTED!!
I know they are invasive.
I know they kill.
I know they are destructive.
I know they NEED to be dispatched.
I know I stated this over and over and OVER.
Beating ME (or anyone else) over the head with these facts over and over and over still doesn't change who I AM. Why is it so hard to get the simplicity of the nature of my post?
ALL I WAS SEEKING WAS A SMALL BIT OF CONSOLATION AND COMPASSION THAT EVEN THOUGH IT IS NECESSARY IT JUST SUCKS "FOR ME" TO BE FACED WITH THIS RIGHT OF PASSAGE THAT ALL Y'ALL HAVE CLEARLY ALREADY MASTERED. I BOW DOWN...
I guess I am only allowed to share facts and not feelings on this forum? MY BAD.
I wasn't looking for anyone to CONVINCE me that it needs to happen!
I UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT THAT...AND ALWAYS DID BEFORE I EVEN POSTED!!
I know they are invasive.
I know they kill.
I know they are destructive.
I know they NEED to be dispatched.
I know I stated this over and over and OVER.
Beating ME (or anyone else) over the head with these facts over and over and over still doesn't change who I AM. Why is it so hard to get the simplicity of the nature of my post?
ALL I WAS SEEKING WAS A SMALL BIT OF CONSOLATION AND COMPASSION THAT EVEN THOUGH IT IS NECESSARY IT JUST SUCKS "FOR ME" TO BE FACED WITH THIS RIGHT OF PASSAGE THAT ALL Y'ALL HAVE CLEARLY ALREADY MASTERED. I BOW DOWN...
I guess I am only allowed to share facts and not feelings on this forum? MY BAD.
Debbie & Warren ~ PMCA Members
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
My apology to you. I did not intend to come across as "beating you over the head".
I think of what happened at my mothers site this year, cleaning out all the dead Bluebirds.
I too use to think that I did not want to kill birds. I fed them for over 20 years. I did NOT know then what they would do.
It hits a cord inside me when I think about what they have been doing to our gentle species.
Again, sorry to make you feel bad; it was not my intent. My intent is to get out the news what the HOSP and Starlings actually do.
Add: it's sorta like defending the weak against the strong who are bullies.....
I think of what happened at my mothers site this year, cleaning out all the dead Bluebirds.
I too use to think that I did not want to kill birds. I fed them for over 20 years. I did NOT know then what they would do.
It hits a cord inside me when I think about what they have been doing to our gentle species.
Again, sorry to make you feel bad; it was not my intent. My intent is to get out the news what the HOSP and Starlings actually do.
Add: it's sorta like defending the weak against the strong who are bullies.....
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wildcatervin
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:14 pm
- Location: milford,de
Received my new sparrow trap this spring and so far I have gotten 38 sparrowsGreat trap and not even sorry for the sparrow.Hope to get more before the end of the season.-
scottfreidhof
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:13 am
- Location: Kentucky/Morehead
You did the right thing by purchasing the traps. Now you can manage your martins for better success. That does not mean that you have to kill the house sparrows that are captured.
Mike described a great method for nonlethal sparrow elimination. You should stick with your conscience and not kill them. I would hate for you or others to give up martins because you feel so strongly about not killing house sparrows.
I know people who cannot watch Predator Week on the Animal Planet channel because the image of a lioness bringing down a zebra is too hard emotionally for them.
At a recent presentation for a garden club here in Kentucky, I recommended that the women find a neighbor boy or husband to do the dirty work if they could not. I even shared Mike's method for tail clipping. People need options. The most important thing is to keep the house sparrows out of the martin housing.
So abide by your conscience and enjoy your martins!
Mike described a great method for nonlethal sparrow elimination. You should stick with your conscience and not kill them. I would hate for you or others to give up martins because you feel so strongly about not killing house sparrows.
I know people who cannot watch Predator Week on the Animal Planet channel because the image of a lioness bringing down a zebra is too hard emotionally for them.
At a recent presentation for a garden club here in Kentucky, I recommended that the women find a neighbor boy or husband to do the dirty work if they could not. I even shared Mike's method for tail clipping. People need options. The most important thing is to keep the house sparrows out of the martin housing.
So abide by your conscience and enjoy your martins!
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mechlingfamily
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:54 am
- Location: Royse City, TX
- Martin Colony History: 2015 ~1 pr 5 hatch-0 fledged
2016 ~ 1pr ~ 5 hatch&fledged
2017 ~ 1 pr ~ 4 hatch&fledged
2018 ~ 2 pr ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatch&fledged
2019 ~ 2 pr~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2021 ~ 23 breeding pair ~ 151 eggs laid ~ 106 hatched ~ 105 fledged
Housing:
2015 - 2018 Vintage inherited Coates Original 12 room aluminum housing modified with SREH and remodeled to 6 Suite Watersedge configuration. Added aluminum vented nesting trays.
2019 ~ added 2 Troyer Vertical Gourds with Tunnel Conley II entrance
2020 ~ converted entrances on gourds to SREH with new plates after Starlings still breached the Conley II entrances
2021 ~ old set up plus added Troyer Super gourds on 24 gourd super system w/ SREH plates added
2022 ~ unchanged from 2021
Trapping HOSP & shooting Starlings
PMCA members - 3rd generation PM Landlords
Tim414,
First of all I sincerely do appreciate and accept your apology.
I also can deeply understand your passion...not just for the Martins but also for the Bluebirds. Aside from this being our first year to have our own Martin house, it is also our first year to have Bluebird nest boxes as well. We attended the Bluebird Festival just down the road from us in Wills Point last year and immediately got the Bluebird house we had had for a number of years (just sitting in the garage) out and installed it in anticipation for this spring. We had not once in 7 years seen a Bluebird in our yard but figured we would attempt it. Much to our joy and surprise we got a pair to nest in it in early March. We immediately bought two more nest boxes and put them out as well. They laid 6 eggs and we were happy to see 5 of them hatch. They were well on their way to being about a week from fledging and then tragically we had a mishap that we never expected...our family dog discovered there was something inside that box once they became vocal. Early the next morning my husband let him out not knowing that I intended to keep him IN and away from the nest box until they fledged. He knocked the box down and destroyed it. He never touched ANY of the babies but by the time I woke up just an hour later it was too late. They all died from exposure on the rain soaked ground.
I. WAS. DEVASTATED. I called the DH at work, hysterically bawling!!!
I felt I had set them up for failure by not predicting the dogs would discover them. I wanted to kill my dog!!! We moved the two remaining nest boxes beyond the area where the dogs would be able to ever do this again, and about a week later the same pair re-nested in one of the other two boxes. We just had the pleasure to see all 5 new eggs hatch and they fledged earlier this past week. So I understand the love of our feathered friends.
I guess I just really feel that I have tried to demonstrate my depth for learning all I can in previous posts...ones that you, and others commenting in the same thread, have also made POSITIVE and ENCOURAGING comments on. I have tried to chronicle MY journey in hopes of helping others...but just as you said you feel compelled to"defend the weak against the strong who are bullies", I FELT that you were bullying ME...the one that was clearly "weak" because I was struggling with the physical aspect of taking a life regardless of how much knowledge I had to back up the reasoning behind it. I value the input I ask for here in this forum...I just also want to be valued as someone who is trying to do everything right as well.
I also feel that Mike Scully has taken a lot of time to really consider his role in martineering and even IF everyone doesn't agree with his decisions he still deserves the same respect. I strongly believe that all these rituals and concepts we practice all came about by the trial and error of SOMEONE and perhaps the things he suggests ARE worthy of consideration. Having said this, my first question after reading his initial statement was the same as others...how to keep them from entering and destroying eggs and lives. So ultimately his method would not be 100% foolpoof "for me", but I still respect that he took MUCH time and effort to reply to any and all questions that people have asked. Clearly he HAS put a lot of time and thought into his actions. And I respect his desire to be as compassionate as possible even if I don't intend to follow his lead. Does that make sense?
To Craig Dyer,
I really appreciate your input because we ARE just down the road from one another. Having the mentoring available from a "neighbor" is priceless and I just wanted you to know that.
To Emil Pampell -TX,
"I grew up on a farm where we killed and ate (chickens, pigs, ducks, etc). The city folks often do not understand that someone must do that kind of thing"
I for one am not feeling I have missed out on not raising my own food for consumption. I would most assuredly be a vegetarian if I were faced with that task. But I don't think your comment was fair...having lived in Texas AND North Dakota I have a strong appreciation for the agricultural world and I am not so small minded as to think my food magically just appears on my plate. I am thankful that I DON'T need to experience that process as I DO enjoy eating food with a face. I also realize that the two things, killing HOSP and feeding families are VASTLY different topics.
And BTW...I am NOT a city girl.
In closing, I have posed several questions in other threads with MINIMAL to NO response...and yet I got way more than I bargained for in regards to my feelings in this one. I AM trying to learn...
Right now I am grieving the apparent abandonment of yet ANOTHER brood...so my feelings still continue to be all over the place.
First of all I sincerely do appreciate and accept your apology.
I also can deeply understand your passion...not just for the Martins but also for the Bluebirds. Aside from this being our first year to have our own Martin house, it is also our first year to have Bluebird nest boxes as well. We attended the Bluebird Festival just down the road from us in Wills Point last year and immediately got the Bluebird house we had had for a number of years (just sitting in the garage) out and installed it in anticipation for this spring. We had not once in 7 years seen a Bluebird in our yard but figured we would attempt it. Much to our joy and surprise we got a pair to nest in it in early March. We immediately bought two more nest boxes and put them out as well. They laid 6 eggs and we were happy to see 5 of them hatch. They were well on their way to being about a week from fledging and then tragically we had a mishap that we never expected...our family dog discovered there was something inside that box once they became vocal. Early the next morning my husband let him out not knowing that I intended to keep him IN and away from the nest box until they fledged. He knocked the box down and destroyed it. He never touched ANY of the babies but by the time I woke up just an hour later it was too late. They all died from exposure on the rain soaked ground.
I. WAS. DEVASTATED. I called the DH at work, hysterically bawling!!!
I felt I had set them up for failure by not predicting the dogs would discover them. I wanted to kill my dog!!! We moved the two remaining nest boxes beyond the area where the dogs would be able to ever do this again, and about a week later the same pair re-nested in one of the other two boxes. We just had the pleasure to see all 5 new eggs hatch and they fledged earlier this past week. So I understand the love of our feathered friends.
I guess I just really feel that I have tried to demonstrate my depth for learning all I can in previous posts...ones that you, and others commenting in the same thread, have also made POSITIVE and ENCOURAGING comments on. I have tried to chronicle MY journey in hopes of helping others...but just as you said you feel compelled to"defend the weak against the strong who are bullies", I FELT that you were bullying ME...the one that was clearly "weak" because I was struggling with the physical aspect of taking a life regardless of how much knowledge I had to back up the reasoning behind it. I value the input I ask for here in this forum...I just also want to be valued as someone who is trying to do everything right as well.
I also feel that Mike Scully has taken a lot of time to really consider his role in martineering and even IF everyone doesn't agree with his decisions he still deserves the same respect. I strongly believe that all these rituals and concepts we practice all came about by the trial and error of SOMEONE and perhaps the things he suggests ARE worthy of consideration. Having said this, my first question after reading his initial statement was the same as others...how to keep them from entering and destroying eggs and lives. So ultimately his method would not be 100% foolpoof "for me", but I still respect that he took MUCH time and effort to reply to any and all questions that people have asked. Clearly he HAS put a lot of time and thought into his actions. And I respect his desire to be as compassionate as possible even if I don't intend to follow his lead. Does that make sense?
To Craig Dyer,
I really appreciate your input because we ARE just down the road from one another. Having the mentoring available from a "neighbor" is priceless and I just wanted you to know that.
To Emil Pampell -TX,
"I grew up on a farm where we killed and ate (chickens, pigs, ducks, etc). The city folks often do not understand that someone must do that kind of thing"
I for one am not feeling I have missed out on not raising my own food for consumption. I would most assuredly be a vegetarian if I were faced with that task. But I don't think your comment was fair...having lived in Texas AND North Dakota I have a strong appreciation for the agricultural world and I am not so small minded as to think my food magically just appears on my plate. I am thankful that I DON'T need to experience that process as I DO enjoy eating food with a face. I also realize that the two things, killing HOSP and feeding families are VASTLY different topics.
And BTW...I am NOT a city girl.
In closing, I have posed several questions in other threads with MINIMAL to NO response...and yet I got way more than I bargained for in regards to my feelings in this one. I AM trying to learn...
Right now I am grieving the apparent abandonment of yet ANOTHER brood...so my feelings still continue to be all over the place.
Debbie & Warren ~ PMCA Members
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
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mechlingfamily
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:54 am
- Location: Royse City, TX
- Martin Colony History: 2015 ~1 pr 5 hatch-0 fledged
2016 ~ 1pr ~ 5 hatch&fledged
2017 ~ 1 pr ~ 4 hatch&fledged
2018 ~ 2 pr ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatch&fledged
2019 ~ 2 pr~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2021 ~ 23 breeding pair ~ 151 eggs laid ~ 106 hatched ~ 105 fledged
Housing:
2015 - 2018 Vintage inherited Coates Original 12 room aluminum housing modified with SREH and remodeled to 6 Suite Watersedge configuration. Added aluminum vented nesting trays.
2019 ~ added 2 Troyer Vertical Gourds with Tunnel Conley II entrance
2020 ~ converted entrances on gourds to SREH with new plates after Starlings still breached the Conley II entrances
2021 ~ old set up plus added Troyer Super gourds on 24 gourd super system w/ SREH plates added
2022 ~ unchanged from 2021
Trapping HOSP & shooting Starlings
PMCA members - 3rd generation PM Landlords
Scottfreidhof,
THANK YOU for acknowledging EXACTLY what I am feeling.
Luckily my Dear Husband was able to handle the dispatching duty. NOW the Sparrows are just avoiding the traps...
THANK YOU for acknowledging EXACTLY what I am feeling.
Luckily my Dear Husband was able to handle the dispatching duty. NOW the Sparrows are just avoiding the traps...
Debbie & Warren ~ PMCA Members
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
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DebA
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 7:43 am
- Location: Pratt County/Kansas
- Martin Colony History: Start 2009 with one pair. Upgraded from S&K houses to two Trendsetter 12's with gourds beneath in 2013. I have experienced job, pet, and parental losses since '13. The Purple Martins lift my spirits and remind me how life continues forward by flying their little selves from Brazil back to my yard. As one forum person once told me, chin up DebA, look at the martins. Danger all around but yet they soar in the sky without a care in the world.
Mechling fam mom,
We are "birds of a feather"...
I GET IT, I GET IT, I GET IT.
I don't know if you saw my recent post a few weeks ago. I am in my seventh year of landlording...here it was:
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewt ... highlight=
I, like you, know this needs to be done. Doesn't mean that parlays into just doing. I need to order the gourd traps now. I know that when I do this again my heart will pound and that empathetic catch in my chest will happen. But, now that it is behind me a bit I know I can do it.
Since my girls grew up and moved out I really became "mother nature". To all creatures. I don't like to see anything killed But, I don't want skunks in my barn eating cat food. I've taken care of that once but my DH really is in front of that and will run out in his underwear. TMI? He wants to raise calves to butcher and we could do it at our place. Oh wait. Nope. Once I look them in the eye I will love on them. Not going to work for me. Now if he could do it elsewhere then I am fine with it coming to my freezer.
Anyway, you are far from alone in this particular struggle. I get it, too.
Deb
We are "birds of a feather"...
I GET IT, I GET IT, I GET IT.
I don't know if you saw my recent post a few weeks ago. I am in my seventh year of landlording...here it was:
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewt ... highlight=
I, like you, know this needs to be done. Doesn't mean that parlays into just doing. I need to order the gourd traps now. I know that when I do this again my heart will pound and that empathetic catch in my chest will happen. But, now that it is behind me a bit I know I can do it.
Since my girls grew up and moved out I really became "mother nature". To all creatures. I don't like to see anything killed But, I don't want skunks in my barn eating cat food. I've taken care of that once but my DH really is in front of that and will run out in his underwear. TMI? He wants to raise calves to butcher and we could do it at our place. Oh wait. Nope. Once I look them in the eye I will love on them. Not going to work for me. Now if he could do it elsewhere then I am fine with it coming to my freezer.
Anyway, you are far from alone in this particular struggle. I get it, too.
Deb
PMCA MEMBER
Pratt County, Kansas
2016 34 PAIR
2015 27 PAIR
2014 23 PAIR
2013 13 PAIR
2012 6 PAIR
2011 4 PAIR
2010 2 PAIR
2009 1 PAIR
Pratt County, Kansas
2016 34 PAIR
2015 27 PAIR
2014 23 PAIR
2013 13 PAIR
2012 6 PAIR
2011 4 PAIR
2010 2 PAIR
2009 1 PAIR
@ Mech;
I can appreciate how you feel. My mother "did" not want to participate in dispatching either. I do this. She holds them till I get there. Her DH (my dad) is no longer with us to take care of these things.
If you have a trap/cage, leave one or two HOSP inside of it with food/water. That attracks others. The HOSP nest are now fledging around here. The fledgling HOSP are not as skidish and they will readily come to food, especially where they see grown ups.
Tim
Add: By the way; my mother was not so sure she wanted me to dispatch HOSp as well; not until see saw all her dead Bluebirds and was nearly in tears because she loves her lil Bluebirds and the other song birds that visit in her back yard. After saw the dead, she asked me to find her a trap lol and I can do the deed....ordered her a trap like mine and showed her how. She's on board. Called me ever few days. We are finally getting her site under control. I never counted how many there were when we started. It has been ALOT....
I can appreciate how you feel. My mother "did" not want to participate in dispatching either. I do this. She holds them till I get there. Her DH (my dad) is no longer with us to take care of these things.
If you have a trap/cage, leave one or two HOSP inside of it with food/water. That attracks others. The HOSP nest are now fledging around here. The fledgling HOSP are not as skidish and they will readily come to food, especially where they see grown ups.
Tim
Add: By the way; my mother was not so sure she wanted me to dispatch HOSp as well; not until see saw all her dead Bluebirds and was nearly in tears because she loves her lil Bluebirds and the other song birds that visit in her back yard. After saw the dead, she asked me to find her a trap lol and I can do the deed....ordered her a trap like mine and showed her how. She's on board. Called me ever few days. We are finally getting her site under control. I never counted how many there were when we started. It has been ALOT....
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mechlingfamily
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:54 am
- Location: Royse City, TX
- Martin Colony History: 2015 ~1 pr 5 hatch-0 fledged
2016 ~ 1pr ~ 5 hatch&fledged
2017 ~ 1 pr ~ 4 hatch&fledged
2018 ~ 2 pr ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatch&fledged
2019 ~ 2 pr~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2021 ~ 23 breeding pair ~ 151 eggs laid ~ 106 hatched ~ 105 fledged
Housing:
2015 - 2018 Vintage inherited Coates Original 12 room aluminum housing modified with SREH and remodeled to 6 Suite Watersedge configuration. Added aluminum vented nesting trays.
2019 ~ added 2 Troyer Vertical Gourds with Tunnel Conley II entrance
2020 ~ converted entrances on gourds to SREH with new plates after Starlings still breached the Conley II entrances
2021 ~ old set up plus added Troyer Super gourds on 24 gourd super system w/ SREH plates added
2022 ~ unchanged from 2021
Trapping HOSP & shooting Starlings
PMCA members - 3rd generation PM Landlords
Well because of the dogs, we opted to have two universal traps that fit into the Martin house as opposed to the repeating bait trap that my dad used for years...didn't need a repeat of the dog destruction, ya know?
Not gonna lie...ALL birds have left my house within the past 36 hours...including the pair of Martins with 5 eggs AND the spare Martin that was just hanging out.
POOF...just like that...Coincidence?
Not gonna lie...ALL birds have left my house within the past 36 hours...including the pair of Martins with 5 eggs AND the spare Martin that was just hanging out.
POOF...just like that...Coincidence?Debbie & Warren ~ PMCA Members
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
2015 ~1 pair 5 hatched none fledged
2016 ~ 1pair ~ 5 hatched & fledged
2017 ~ 1 pair ~ 4 hatched & fledged
2018 ~ 2 breeding pair ~ 5 eggs each ~ 9 hatched & fledged
2019 ~ 2 breeding pair~ 5 & 6 eggs ~ 10 fledged + 1 to Rogers Wildlife Rehabber/outcome unknown
2020 ~ 4 breeding pair ~ 24 eggs 6/6/6/5 +1 extra nest with 1 egg that never hatched ~ 23 hatched ~ 22 fledged
What happened????mechlingfamily wrote:Well because of the dogs, we opted to have two universal traps that fit into the Martin house as opposed to the repeating bait trap that my dad used for years...didn't need a repeat of the dog destruction, ya know?
Not gonna lie...ALL birds have left my house within the past 36 hours...including the pair of Martins with 5 eggs AND the spare Martin that was just hanging out.