Tree Swallows

[DAVE]

Last year I had a Tree Swallow problem, TO DARN MANY. Last year I had 4 pair of Trees that keep getting into my Gourds.Had to close up some of the Gourds until the Martins started to fight one another for a Gourd then I would open up a Gourd and the Martins would move in it. Also they would fight the Blue Birds until I mover the box with in 15 feet of Trees box and this stopped that. Now I thought I would build more boxes but am afraid this would make things worse for this year, more young!
I read some post last year about too many Trees, how do you handle this?
Thanks Dave

[JL Murray]

Maybe you could try to move the TS housing farther away!

[D'Nese]

We host TS's every year. We seem to have a nice balance of all. What type of openings do you have in your gourds?

[lucky3]

Dave, I have the same problem every year too. The trees fight with everything that comes by, and run off any martins that stop to look. I think that when your martin colony gets big enough you won't have this problem anymore. If you do find a solution in the mean time please let me know. Wannabe in Tennessee. [/b]

[Louise Chambers]

There was an article on bluebird management in the winter Update that dealt quite a bit with tree swallows - how to establish a bluebird trail that produced bluebirds, not tree swallows. Allen Jackson, NJ martin landlord, and one of the founders of the NJ bluebird society, put his techniques into the article.

[DAVE]

Louise! I found Allen Jackson's phone number and called him. He said good luck No he said don't pair up your boxes and keep fighting the trees to discourage them from staying around. He found that if you don't let the trees raise young you won't have as much a problem. It has taken him several years to curb the Trees population but still have some problems. Also that the older the Martins and Blue Birds are the better they will fight off Trees. Also he said the larger the Martin Colony the less problems you will have with Trees. The more boxes you have the worse it will be.
Thanks Dave

[Louise Chambers]

Dave, I am sorry I did not have time (yet) to make a pdf of the article for you - I mentioned it in part so that people who got the winter issue of the Update could refer to it. We are not able to put all articles online, but I will make a pdf for you as soon as I can. Glad you connected with Allen, he is a good guy!

PS: some back issues of the Update are available online for bargain price of $1.25 + shipping - but not current year, and not all issues. http://shop.purplemartin.org/Books-list.aspx

[~Ray~Gingerich]

When I first started out I had problems with TS's running the martins off, even tried the protocall which didn't work for me. Now that my colony has some size I sometimes see martins tormenting nesting TS's

[tonyg]

Dave I have the same problem around here. I currently have 10 bluebird houses on my 14 acres and 70% were taken by the tres..

[Hanover Bill]

Ditto to all of the above. I had a particularly aggressive pair of Tree Swallows last year that drove me crazy, chasing off all of my visitors.

I followed the established protocol, but nothing worked. They did finally nest in a separate gourd away from my Martin Housing, but they continued to perch on the Martin housing chasing all visitors away.

I am not looking forward to that battle again this year.

Hanover Bill.

[Louise Chambers]

I want to encourage folks who are frustrated by too many Tree Swallows/not enough bluebirds in their bluebird boxes to do more reading - I think removing some boxes could help, in some cases, increase occupancy by bluebirds - read the link here and the excerpt below. http://www.braw.org/info/braw_ask_the_pros/index.html

Overall tree swallows can breed quite successfully when nest boxes are close together because they usually feed far away from their nesting area. In contrast, bluebirds need a high quality feeding site in the area immediately surrounding their nest box because their territories provide all the food for the breeding period in addition to the nest site. As a result, bluebirds defend a larger area around their nest box (2.7 to 20.7 acres) than tree swallows, which defend only a small area around the nest box (within about a 33-foot radius).

The above suggests adding more boxes will yield more tree swallows and fewer bluebirds. Also think about and experiment with site selection - bluebirds would take to orchards and nursery type areas, tree swallows want open ares more than bluebirds do. Here's a paragraph from Allen jackson's article, discussed in earlier posts.

Location, location, location is the key to box placement. I look for open habitat with an overhanging branch nearby for the male to perch, hunt and defend his territory from. Bluebirds especially like agricultural areas where it’s easier to find food. The box is faced to the east to catch the warmth of the morning sun and I look for structure within 100 feet for the young’s first flight. Providing shade in the afternoon cools the box during the heat of the summer. I do not pair boxes as research by the Bluebird Res- toration Association of Wisconsin (www.braw.org) found pairing led to an increase in Tree Swallow numbers associated with a decrease in bluebird numbers.

and

Don’t get me wrong, I like Tree Swallows.
I also like fox and chickens, but I do not put the two together. Try to select optimal bluebird habitat, do not pair boxes and experiment with ways to deter Tree Swallows from using bluebird boxes. I am evaluating placing 2 x 3 inch wire around the box and placing boxes near trees in open areas, hoping to find that Tree Swallows dislike not being able to fly directly to the entrance hole or that they may avoid boxes placed near trees for fear of proximity to aerial predators.

[DAVE]

Louise! I really want to THANK YOU for all your help. Sorry about the mix up about Allen's article. DUH I just read it about 2 weeks ago but went over my head like so many things do now'a days. Between Allens article, my long talk with Allen and the Bluebird Restoration Association of Wisconsin web site I feel I can manage ok, won't be simple but hey what is. I only have an acre of land so trying to get 2 sets of Bluebirds probly won't happen but will try. As for the trees they will have to be managed as Allen said.
I have my Racks up but openings closed. I made all new Racks with Western Cedar and hung six 11 inch Natural Gourds on each, have 3 Racks for a total of 18 Gourds. Once again THANKS!
Dave

[Louise Chambers]

You are welcome, Dave - I think Allen said one pair bluebirds per 3 acres, so maybe one pair is what you have space for - depends on the lay of the land, so to speak. I had a 1 acre + lot in PA, and had one pair bb, one pair tres, one pair house wrens out of sight of the others - and one year also had a pair of martins :-)

I miss tres and bb here, bb are scarce and tres don't nest this far south - but boy, do we have martins! and we've had flycatchers, woodpeckers, wrens, and titmice in nestboxes.

I think box spacing will help - once the bb are established, they should hold their own. try giving the tres a gourd, mine loved gourds and abandoned a box to move to a gourd one year.

And I need to mention, removing eggs of native birds is not a legal management technique, and it won't help, since the young disperse anyway, and adults return each year- please work on box placement, I think we can find some things that will work, and be a much better option. When I had to keep house wrens from moving into a nestbox for bb/tres, I removed all their twigs daily (removing incomplete nest is okay, removing completed nest is not) while at the same time, they had a couple of boxes further from tres/bb site that I let them build away in - that worked for me, at least.

[Mark Scott]

I too have problems with tree swallows. Last year, everytime I had a visiting sy martin, it was chased by a tree swallow. I have tried the 25',50, and even 100 feet gourd (which they nested in and raised young) but that did not keep them from chasing my martins off. I believe until I get rid of the tree swallows, I wont get any martins. I'm trying to get martins, not TREE SWALLOWS! So this year I will do something different.

[Louise Chambers]

Mark, do you have any bluebirds? You can wait until tres have eggs and then put martin housing up, then they should not bother it. I think having one box or gourd for tres within 30-40 ft of martin system will keep other pairs from trying to claim it later on, same thing with bluebirds.

[Mark Scott]

Yes I have bluebirds in their own box. 35' away and they are no problem. The tree swallows had their gourd 35' from gourd rack and had eggs, still chased the martins, move the gourd with eggs 50' away and still chased martins, moved gourd and the young swallows 100' and they still chased the martins.

[Louise Chambers]

I used to call my tree swallows "rambos" and I know how fierce they can be. But they make good sentries/protectors/alarm givers, and the problem is getting that first pair of martins settled in. Once that happens, the martins can handle the tres by themselves quite well. There's a window of opportunity, too, after the tres fledge their young and depart, when you can still attract martins. I hope you'll find a box placement or other strategy that helps you get martins.