New Landlords

ljd-kc · Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:37 am

I raised my new gourd rack on Saturday on my new 3" square aluminum pole after spending most of my free time on it this winter. By the way I want to thank Dick for his help on how to mount the gourds. On Monday we had wind gust up to 65 mph. The rack and pole took the wind just fine, but the ground stake was visibly loose in the ground. I had dug my hole 36" deep by 30" in diameter and poured it full of concrete with the steel stake in the center. Obviously what I had done wasn't enough for the soil conditions on my property. Needless to say it all had to be re-done. So here I am almost a week and a cubic yard of conrete later, waiting for the concrete to set up enough to put the rack back up. I'm sure glad I put the rack up plenty early, not sure what the fix would be if it would have been during martin season for us. Just wanted to share this experience so all new landlords would take extra precautions when installing your new racks. The foundation is the most important part of a home, including our martin homes.

Jack

zoefluf · Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:15 pm

WOW! That's a lot of concrete. What kind of soil conditions do you have? It's hard to believe that what you originally put down wasn't good enough. Was the concrete set when the winds came?
Jeanne

Emil Pampell-Tx · Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:51 pm

I too am interested in the soil conditions at your place. I have 48 gourds on my poles, had a hurricane come by, hole is 10in-12in diameter by 4ft deep. Dug it with a standard posthole digger by my neighbors tractor...the poles never have moved yet, and they have been in the ground for at least 10 years. You can see why I wonder about your soil...

Another question, how important is the depth of the holes? I wonder about that

ljd-kc · Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:53 pm

Jeanne,

I am not sure what type of soil we have here but as a general rule there is a lot of clay in our part of the country. Where I have my pole though, I found very little the first time around. The second time I went deep enough to get into good hard clay, and then some. I actually had poured the concrete last fall after the birds had left, thinking it would have plenty of time to cure. It took some time to bust it loose off of the ground stake so I could re-use it.

Jack

ljd-kc · Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:11 pm

Emil,

I only have 28 gourds on mine, I'm impressed with your 48, that is bound to catch more wind than mine, and yet yours are still standing. I would venture to guess the depth of the hole is proportional to the type of soil you have along with how much wind your set up catches? I wonder how would a person really know how deep to go for sure in any particular area, without soil samples and testing? At 6' feet I did hit good hard clay, and feel confident it will hold now.

Jack

Emil Pampell-Tx · Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:22 pm

Our soil is very porus, its easy to till, soil analysis describes it as alluvial ( clay, silt, sand, gravel, or similar detrital material deposited by running water). It was deposited here by the Brazos River. Its very good topsoil is the best way that I can describe it.

I just don't know why its so steady in holding a pole...

flyin-lowe · Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:06 pm

The hole I dug for my T 14 last year was a little over 4 foot deep and 12 or so inches in diameter. I was a little concerned because after about two foot the soil got real sandy. I put in the ground sleeve and then 7 or 8 bags of sac-crete. I cant remember now how much they weighed but I am thinking about 50-60 lbs each. It was a lot but they don't cost that much and I would rather go a little over board then have a pole come crashing down. I let mine set for about a week before I put the pole in. We had some very strong winds last fall after hurricane Ike (I think) for about 2 days that were 70+ MPH and my house and pole didn't move much at all.

Retpsub · Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:23 pm

Please help me a little understanding what you are saying about being " loose", do you mean the cement or whatever the stake is being loose. >>>rack and pole took the wind just fine, but the ground stake was visibly loose in the ground. I had dug my hole 36" deep by 30" in diameter and poured it full of concrete with the steel stake in the center<<< Thanks. *BW*

ljd-kc · Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:28 pm

BW,

My mistake in my description on what was actually loose. The steel stake was still firmly secure in the concrete pier , it was the pier that I had poured that had become loose in the ground. After I had removed the rack & pole I could move the pier back and forth in the ground by pushing and pulling on the stake.

Jack

Emil Pampell-Tx · Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:09 pm

Jack, in order to do that, you must have had a round hole. I would suggest that you make the hole oblong, maybe even more square, and much deeper if you ever need to do it again...A round hole would turn very easily.

flyin-lowe · Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:45 pm

Another suggestion I was given was to try to "ball out" the bottom of your hole. It must be wide to do it but reach to the bottom and dig outward so the bottom of the hole is wider then the top. This should help keep things from moving up as the ground expands and contracts due to weather.

Donnie Hurdt MN · Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:21 pm

Also as I have mentioned before on this or another forum throw some old scrap metal in the hole too and arrange it so it woll dig into the sides of the hole and futher stablize the cement you pour in. Works great for me.

Retpsub · Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:33 pm

Extremely wet or extremely dry conditions can also help this happen as you described. If neither, then look for the hole to be the problem as others have mentioned. Thanks. *BW*

KathyF · Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:41 pm

Dang - 4 ft. deep? I read the instructions that came with my trendsetter that called for 18" x 18" last summer, I believe, and going for a bit of "over-engineering", we dug it to 30" deep x 24" (square) in a "bell shape" - as in the bottom was a few inches wider than the top.

Then we pounded rebar in the bottom of the hole for reinforcement. It has withstood 60mph straight-line winds (unintentionally of course) and is doing great. Of course, we have good old Missouri hard pan in the area where I'm digging - my house didn't even "settle" after we built here!

ljd-kc · Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:03 am

Emil, Flyin-Lowe, Donnie, & Kathy

All very good ideas with which I will use on all new installations, and I thank you for that. I did use a lot of re-bar but nothing to possibly keep the set up from rotating. At this point I hope my depth will help deter this.

BW,

I believe your right on the wet soil conditions. after the first 30" it became very hard and not near as must moisture the deeper I went.

Jack

flyin-lowe · Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:33 am

Another thing I thought about but did not do was to drill two holes towards the bottom of your ground sleeve and run a bolt through it with a nut. This will give some bite and keep the ground sleeve from rotating in the hole and you can then cut a slot in the bottom of your pole so it slips down over the bolt that is running horizontally and keep the pole from spinning in the ground sleeve.