is it ok to use sevin dust now?

[jim h]

I have several birds that look like they are going to stay, I don't think they are fully committed yet but are allowing me to work on pole while they observe from a power line 20-25 feet away.
I noticed they spend a lot of time scraiching themselves and need something for mites.
My question is, can I take a long handle teaspoon and sprinkle some sevin dust on top of the pine straw without it being a health problem to the adults or the babies that might hatch later? If I can let me know how much would be ok to use per room or gourd. I have six excluder gourds with inside and outside porches and a house with six modified 6 by 12" rooms.

I thank everyone for the help and support I have received from the forum, what a great resource for beginners like myself!!

[Guest]

You dont want to put it on the nest.

[John Miller]

I'd not apply it because of seeing the birds preening as they do. They do this constantly -- not sure if it's to rid themselves of mites or just grooming, but it's normal behavior. They do carry parasites with them.

My mother freaks every time her little dog scratches itself -- thinking it's fleas. "Jake," my beagle (see photo) scratches regularly in a leisurely way -- I think it's what dogs -- and martins -- do.

John M

[Tim Mangan-Kansas]

Jim:

I agree with John. Just because you see them scratching doesn't mean they have mites. They preen quite often. I would check their nest while they out feeding. If you see any evidence of mites, then I would make an application of seven.

I give each of my nests a couple of squirts of liquid seven when I first put my housing up a couple of weeks before the first scout is expected. I apply a half teaspoon of 5% powder seven UNDER the nest after the last egg is laid. I use a small turkey baster to spray the powder. (Just gently lift up the front of the nest facing you and spread the seven around. You can also apply the seven powder to the corners on top of the nest and use the spoon to tamp the powder down into the nest.) I again apply another half teaspoon under the nest when all the nestlings in each nest are around seven to ten days old. Been doing this for several years and have never had a parasite problem.

Tim

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Seven dust or liquid can be applied any time during the season. It does not take much to kill mites, so only about a 1/4 teaspoonful of powderl will usually kill all the mites for the entire season.

Most people do not like the idea of sprinkling it on the top. Mites are constantly crawling, so no matter where you put it, it will kill them. Why not put it way into a corner under the nest?

Liquid seven kills the mites and its good for about 10 days after its applied. Powdered seven is good when it stays dry but deterioates when it gets wet. If you have dry nests, the powdered seven under the nest will kill the mites all season long in most cases

Its hard to give a good time that the seven lasts, because a lot of rain and high humidity may cause the seven to deterioate quickly.

The best way to find out if the birds have mites is to check the nests. If you have mites, you can see them crawling everywhere. They look like tiny moving spots. Watching the birds scratch is not a good way to tell if they have mites.

[jim h]

It is just amazing how with a simple question one can get real time information that is so useful. Thanks, Jim

[Guest]

Dude, give the chemicals a rest. Any bird in the wild is going to be exposed to mites and other parasites. If you do nest checks you will be able to see a mite infestation and do a total nest replacement and clean out the gourd. I put the nest with the babies in a gourd I keep for just such purposes. I hose off the old gourd,wipe it down clean, put new nesting materials in and replace the babies. Then check it a couple of days later to see if you have a handle on the mites. I have done this quite a few times with no negative impact on the babies or parents. Does anyone know if by using Sevin, martin babies are not exposed to enough parasites that this in turn affects there immune system negatively in the future? Like adults developing immunity to childhood diseases? Or that those babies that would have died because of disease or parasites pass sub-standard genes on to future martins thus weakening the martin population. I don't think anyone knows the answers to any of this. But martins have been around a long time and were doing fine before we decided they needed to be laced with chemicals for their own health. Anyway, that is my opinion on the use of Sevin. I know others disagree. Id like to hear their reasoning.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

pstephen2000, You may be right about using chemicals, but at the same time, look how many babies are lost every year to mite infestations when people do not do regular nest changes. Many babies simply jump out of the nests before they can fly just to get away from the mites, and then starve to death on the ground, or are eaten by fire ants. The suffering that the babies go thru when sevin is not used has to be awful. Its like a human walking out into a mosquito filled place, staying there day & night, and not using a mosquito repellent. I would rather take a chance than to see my baby martins die. Nest changes do not get rid of the mites that are on the baby martins, it gets rid of the mites that are on the nesting materal.

Having said that, I don't like chemicals either, I don't use any in my garden or on my fruit trees and they do quite well growing organically. Sevin is used regularly in growing vegetables that are sold in our supermarkets, and I bet you eat some of those vegies every day. If its safe to use on our food, it should be safe for our birds when it is used very sparingly under the nests. It is also used in all the poultry houses in the United States, and it never has been shown to affect any poultry. The sad truth is that most people will forget to do nest changes, and then so many of the babies will suffer or even die. Very few will actually follow a rigid nest change schedule. The good plans that they have are not followed, and the mites prosper.

The way that I feel about this, the martins for millions of years have survived in cavities, some maybe made by woodpeckers. They lived far apart, and mites may not have been a problem. Now the martins are so congregated in a crowded place like our houses and gourd racks, that a mite explosion can explode so rapidly and affect all the birds in our colony. The conditions are different now, caused by man of course, so the methods of protecting them are different. Sure some of them can survive without sevin, but they sure will have a miserable life when mites arrive. A tiny bit of sevin under the nest can make for a very happy bunch of baby martins. I want my martins to be happy

This is such a controversial subject, so its up to all of the readers to decide: Sevin or nest changeouts...take your choice

[Guest]

Emil, I do agree with you. If you can't or don't have time to do the nest checks then I would probably use Sevin. And if I had an infestation I just could not get a handle on I would use it then also. But if your doing your checks and your colony does not seem to suffer unduly from parasites then I believe its use is unwarranted. I do believe we as a culture use way to many chemicals. But, when coupled with common sense and care (shamefully lacking in most politicians and CEO's) they are a powerful tool. An overused tool, but a necessary tool nonetheless.