Dead Martin :(

[Grady]

Did a next check today to find a dead adult male in a gourd. (I have had a recent influx of PMs in the last 3 or 4 days and have 12-15 always around and spending the night. No eggs or green leaves yet.) Almost every feather was plucked from its head. The reast of it seemed unharmed. I do have some HOSPs that I'm fighting. Was that the work of another Martin or a HOSP? I have SREH on all cavities.

[Carlton]

To me that sounds like a HS attack.

[John Miller]

Had you pulled an advanced sparrow nest, with babies?

I've told a story here many times of pulling advanced sparrow nests (with babies) as a teen -- too many years ago -- and resulting in a mortally wounded male martin on the ground. It had a big patch of feathers pulled from behind its neck and could not fly. Sparrows use their powerful beaks to inflict this kind of damage.

I like to think pulling sparrow nests often to keep them from getting established does not cause this level of rage in the male sparrow, but I'm not certain.

John M

[Martin man RI]

Hi Grady
Your Martin was trapped because in SREH units they cannot escape
fast enough to get away. 17 years i have managed martins and the only
birds i have found with those markings are in SREH units 10 years i used
round holes and small units i never found a dead martin that was bald.
Clue always happens as more martins fly in males fight males females against females. The same thing will happen with them. Also last spring
i caught two males in the act of fighting and I found one somewhat bald
and eyes crusted the winner flew off as i lowered the gourds and removed
the injured martin who died of injuries a day later. A healthy martin is
by far much stronger and powerful than even two sparrows. I have studied
these marks since 2006 when i first found a bird with those marks. Every year i find between 1 and four dead martins due to fights not much we can
do. The holes are narrow but over all protection out weights a few losses.
Ray

[adrianhans]

Grady,
Early this season, I rescued an adult male with wing entrapment. The top of his head was plucked and bloodied. Only other birds in cavity were 3 martins. He is happily still around with his female. He is so showy even though we have nicknamed him "Baldy". His head is healed but still bald. The most recent issue of Texas Parks and Wildlife has an article on bald headed cardinals that it attributes to molting. I wonder.

[Steve Kroenke]

Hey Grady,

I agree with Ray. Healthy purple martins that have bonded to a nest cavity are able to defend themselves against house sparrows under most situations, particularly when fighting inside the nests. I have never seen a sparrow kill an adult martin and I have studied inter-specific competition between these two species for over 40 years. I have observed numerous battles between martins and house sparrows where both were fighting inside a gourd or house compartment and the martins won the majority of time and forced the sparrows out. In my colonies where sparrows were present, the established martins were able to hold their on with the sparrows provided the sparrows were not able to build their compact nests which can keep martins out.

Martins can have a difficult time exiting cavities with srehs during fighting. Martins even have a hard time getting out of round holes when the victor is holding the loser and will not let him/her go. I have seen several cases where both male and female martins were brutally beaten by other martins inside cavities with srehs because the losing martin could not get out easily. In one case a male martin was stuck in a crescent hole with his head turned inwards. Another male martin inside the cavity pecked all the feathers off the stuck martin's head and this along with being entrapped no doubt killed him.

Steve

[Show-Me-Mike]

Grady,
Sounds to me like martin vs. martin given what you've said regarding the bald head inside the SREH compartment. Just this morning I observed a ASY male with wing entrapment and had to rescue him. When I lowered the house, I found him mostly unharmed and released him. Then I looked inside the compartment and find another ASY male in the back. I grabbed him to check him out, found him O.K. and released him as well. Both flew off with no problem and were just fine. As I raised the house back up, I got to thinking how many times this same thing has happened over the years. It's just not unusual for martins to do battle with each other inside a compartment and there's absolutely nothing to be done about it.

The truth is, I've lost more martins to other martins (ie: subadult males, infighting, babies removed from nests, etc) than all other predators, competitors combined. I believe this is the case more ofter than not if you really think about it. Also, like Ray and Steve, I don't believe I've ever lost a martin to a HOSP in a one-on-one fight. The normally timid martin is tougher than you think, especially when defending its nest, or fighting another martin.

Best wishes to all for a successful martin season

[billb]

I would also bet it was another martin. Witnessed a pretty lengthy, vicious fight between 2 ASY males in one of my compartments a month ago. The winner has sported a racing stripe on the side of his head ever since. My guess is 1/3 of his head feathers/down are gone, and he was the winner!

[John Miller]

Well I disagree with Steve that a sparrow cannot kill a martin, but will clarify. The martin I found wounded by a sparrow..and it was years ago...was not outright killed. It was grounded -- stunned by a nickle sized wound--bald patch--on the back of his lower neck (nearly between his shoulder blades) and could not fly, which of course is subsequently fatal. I didn't have SREH -- wooden round holes then...and there had been fighting between the martins and sparrows after I pulled active sparrow nests.

John

[Steve Kroenke]

John,

I didn't say a sparrow can't kill a martin. I said I have never seen one do it. I am sure there have been fatalities on both sides. You need to go back and read my response more carefully.

Steve

[John Miller]

Steve


When you say you have never seen it, and add for emphasis that you have studied their interactions for 40 years, I inferred that you believe it can't happen or is pretty darn unlikely. No, you didn't say it can't happen.

I believe there is significant risk to adult martins of pulling advanced sparrow nests. I worry that people, including me, don't need much motivation to pull these nests. It's quick and easy, but I worry it puts the adult martins in danger. But sparrow involvement may not be the case with Grady at all; it may well be martins fighting as stated.


John M

[KathyF]

I caught a flock of cowbirds (10 to be exact-they must have been like lemmings ) one day in my repeating bait trap, sometime between noon (last time I checked it) and 4:00 when I checked it again.

In that time, one or all of them had attacked another cowbird and pecked it about the head so badly that it was dead and I couldn't even make out the features of the face.

I think any flesh wound, no matter the size can be deadly to the birds because of the likelihood of infection, whether inflicted by a sparrow or another martin.

It still shocks me how a sparrow can behead a bluebird. Just another reason to kill sparrows and starlings around your site.

[Tim Stover]

hi everyone just had to tell what i witnessed the other day male sparrow entering gourd asy male martin came off top rack went after him not playin but with force drove the sparrow away and he did not return

[Jeff Robinson]

Grady - no dead martins here YET, but since Sunday, I quite possibly may have prevented and deaths. And it was martin on martin. In addition to the following which I copied and pasted from another thread, I again had to lower the gourds this evening. A returning ASY female went into an already ASY pair claimed Natureline with SREH about 20 minutes before dark, and after watching and hearing the two females go at it for quite a while and noticing that the loser couldn't get out of the crescent hole during the fight, I decided it was time for all my martins to be going in before the Coopers Hawk hit them again from all the ruckus. I opened the gourd and found one female pecking hard at the back of the other's head, and I shoo'd her off, then let the other one rest for a minute, then took her in hand and brought her out of the gourd, and she actually sat in my hand breathing hard for about a half minute, then flew off and immediatley joined all my other birds waiting for me to get the gourd rack back up. All ended well - all martins returned to their original holes within 2 - 3 minutes, and the female that just returned today, went into an unoccupied Goliad hole by herself right at dark. I will sleep much better tonight!! Below is the post that I copied and pasted from this past Sunday....
....From tentative and reserved about starting a colony last year, to now watching daily as more and more ASYs are fighting the initial scouts that're still trying to dominate as many holes as they can. I brought the Goliad down 3 times Sunday to break up fights: The first was 2 females fighting when the original Betty from last year (she's a 1st year ASY this year with easily identifiable curved beak like no other) returned and wanted her hole back. Her wing was entraped, so I freed those two from a vicious CAT fight; then broke up 2 LONG fights between the same two males in two different holes as my 2nd male scout was trying to hold down too many holes. It was amazing that I brought down the house, opened the door, pulled out the nest box, and it wasn't till I had almost grabbed one of them that they finally came out of their fight stupor and flew off. My intervention worked though, because now that other male is staying with a new ASY female in the last hole that I broke them up in. Not saying that it wouldn't have happened without my intervention, but at this point, I'd rather not have any dead birds from exhaustion, and continue increasing in my breakout year.

[Scully]

Grady,

What kind of gourd was it?

Over the past six years or so I have recovered maybe nine dead purple martins with such injuries, all in Big Bo gourds with crescent SREH entrances and long porches both inside and outside the entrance.

My feeling was that the long inside porch gave whichever combatant was on it an advantage over a martin down in the rounded bottom of the gourd. The gourd itself is not big enough to allow the martin at the bottom to get out of reach of the martin or sparrow on the inside porch.

So now I cut the inside porch on those Big Bos, still leaving enough for the martins to easily get out , this apparently has solved that problem.

I slipped up this year and had one of our ten Big Bo's still with a long inside porch, found a dead ASY male in it last month.

Never had this problem with Big Bos and tunnel entrances attached.

Our martins like Big Bos and I would recommend 'em to anyone, provided they cut the inside porch short. Here's an example of a cut-down porch, with our first brood of this year.



Mike Scully

[Martin man RI]

Another hint that its Martin Against Martin its always ASY birds and always
when the largest volume of birds show up and never when there are eggs
and chicks. I have seen Martins run off HOSP. Plus the trade mark wounds
a bald head. And what about people that dont manage HOSP they would never have a colony if there HOSP were killing there Martins. I have broken
many of these death matches up and its always mid May. I hate to find females that what makes me upset. But i feel there is nothing i can do.
and its rare. I say every year please get along and dont fight! I hate to even loose one bird.

Ray