Should Trying Landlords Have Round Entrances?

[pugsleyhall]

Friends,

I checked the archives for this and could not find anything specific on it. I am trying to become a landlorad and have all sreh entrances on my house and gourds. No other landlord in my area (the South) has sreh entrances, theirs are all round. Am I hurting my chances of attracting birds by not having round entrances? I am home and can keep tabs on predator birds. Should I have round entrances to attract the birds and then change to sreh when I establish birds? Thank you for any opinions.

Melissa

[Tim Mangan-Kansas]

Melissa:

I started my colony with all SREH openings and as far as I know, I was the only one in the area offering them. If the martins like your site, they will figure out how to use the SREH openings.

However, with that being said, you can offer some round holes to make it easier for any martins attracted to your site. The key, as you indicated, is to be watchful of starlings and sparrows.

This is always a tough call for beginners but IMO, if they like your set-up, they will use the SREH openings.

Tim

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Thats an old question that always has many answers, here are a few

1)if you have no starlings, then round holes work fine
2)if you have sreh with porches, they too work fine after the martins learn to enter them. They learn quickly if they really want to enter. This in my opinion is the best, because you never know when a starling will arrive.
3)tunnels seem to help martins choose a cavity, they feel safer with deep gourds or cavities (about 12in or something close to that)
4)Usually its difficult for a martin to learn to enter an sreh if you have no porches, but they use them in some places and do quite well.

Most of the most recent porches, tunnels, sreh, etc are very easy for the martins to learn to enter. Some of the very first sreh that were on gourds or houses made it difficult for martins to enter and exit. These early versions had a few things that needed correcting.

[Guest]

I am likely in the minority here, but my personal experience is that if you're the lone site in the vicinity, SREH are a deterrent to attracting martins. If others in your area use SREH, they are probably a good idea. I tried some SREH last year, of different shapes, and I never had a single martin even show interest, but I watched a starling persist and enter two of them, so I have round entrances on my houses for now. If and when I am able to re-establish a colony, I will change over.

[Guest]

HI Melissa
MY THIRD YEAR OF TRYING TO GET MARTINS
A LANDLORD TOLD ME I NEDED USED NATURAL GOURDS
WITH ROUND HOLES
UESED,NATURAL AND ROUND HOLES IS THE BEST
GUESS WHAT, I HAD TWO PAIR THAT YEAR IN THOSE TWO GOURDS
I STILL USE THEM TODAY AND THEY ARE ALWAYS THE FIRST TO GO
THEY ARE THE ONLY ROUND HOLES I HAVE TODAY
DENNIS

[geezer]

If I were to start over today, it would be with tunneled SREH Gourds probably Troyer Horizontals. The PM's in Texas would have no problem with the SREH entrances. Very high occupancy rates.

The most important consideration would be protection from snakes. Make sure you get the "birdnetting" around the bottom of the pole.

geezer

[Steve Kroenke]

There are many successful round hole martin colonies. Not all colonies have starling problems and many landlords can successfully control starlings via trapping/shooting. When I lived in north Florida, I had zero starling problems for my last two martin colonies and that time frame covered from the mid 70s through 2004. Monday through Friday I left for work in the mornings at 6:30 am and got home between 5:30 and 6:00 pm. Not a single starling ever bothered my martin colonies and none were ever seen around the housing. If starlings had been a problem, they would have tried to move in during all those hours I was away from home. But none did.

I live now in northwest Louisiana. We use all round holes in our two personal martin colonies and we attracted nearly 500 pairs of martins in 2010. I had 337 pairs and my neighbor, Bob, has about 150.

Starlings have been a minor issue since I moved out here and I started my martin colony in 2005. In 2010, I trapped a few starlings prior to the martins return and then shot only three more later. Starlings caused no problems for the martins.

There is simply no compelling reason for us to use srehs right now in our two personal colonies because there are just too few starlings to make any difference and I can control those few. We are staying with our successful round holes because the martins prefer them, all martins can enter, we have no entrapment issues, and when Accipiter hawks/merlins are attacking or threatening, martins can quickly enter or exit their housing with round holes. I have observed on a number of occasions martins struggling to enter or exit srehs and Accipiter hawks attack and catch a martin that could not enter or exit quickly enough.

However, srehs are important for those martin colonies that have major starling issues or the landlord is unable to trap/shoot starlings. We use all srehs in our six satellite martin colonies located in northwest Louisiana. These colonies are located in urban/suburban areas with heavy starling populations. Also we are unable to monitor these colonies frequently, so we couldn’t eliminate starlings quickly. Martins have readily nested in our sreh cavities and we would never use round holes at our satellite colonies.

So there is a place for both round holes and srehs in purple martin colonies. Each situation is different and what is happening at one site may or may not be happening at another. If you don’t have a starling problem or you can control starlings via trapping/shooting, then round holes are great. If starlings are a problem and you have difficulty controlling them, then srehs will work just fine in most cases. Srehs have worked perfectly for us at our satellite colonies. You can start off with round holes and after the martins are bonded to the colony then if you think it is necessary you can convert to srehs. Martins will usually adjust to the change.

I wish you the best and hope you have nice martin colony in 2011.

Steve

[Doug Martin - PA]

Hi Melissa,

It sure is easy to overthink this whole thing. Isn't it? Try not to do so.

The bottom line is you need a few Martins looking for a new home. It will not be those that are arriving first in your area. It will be those that are arriving last.

Once a few Martins catch on to your site there is little that really makes a difference including the opening you are offering.

A couple round hole naturals is a good idea too. But not necessary.

Good visibilty of your housing from above and some dawnsong is all you can do for now. Be patient. The subbies will be coming soon. You are kinda wasting the dawnsong on the older birds right now but it doesn't hurt.

Even the 1st subbies coming tend to fill in at active sites first.

If you find they come but can not enter you can deal with it then. Sounds to me like you are good to go.

Remember these birds have a strong homing instinct to go back to where they were last year. You just need a few with nowhere to go. Young males like to get out and start new territory. You'll at least get a few of them soon. That is a start.

Doug

[LarryMelcher/KY]

Melissa,
I would use 95% SREH. ONLY if you watch them round holes closely. Do not allow any species other than Purple Martins use your martin house.

The key is attracting the first pair or two. Once you do that, martins have a strong urge to join a colony.

New colony sites CAN attract older martins. How? If martins don't raise young successfully, they may not return to colony sites with predator problems. Predators like European Starlings, English House Sparrows, Snakes, Owls..... there are lots of things that make people lose their martins.

Open your house and gourds early. If you have a lot, and are starting a new colony, open only the ones you see the most, whether it is from a window, your driveway... which ever entrances you can quickly glance at.

Monitoring a colony is best if you have a lot of time early in the day, but a "good long look"... even if you only take a 1 or 2 minute look as you are busy with house chores.... That works too. Just don't put the house up and forget it, or "let nature take its course". Anything in life you will get as much out of it, as you put into it.

[John Miller]

Melissa

I was looking at your housing profile.

Just to offer a couple of round holes with minimal risk of starlings, you could do so on your coates house...that you so dutifully modified to deep compartments. Starlings tend to peer in 6 x 6 units and move on, and so you could offer two round holes...stop up the hole in the interior wall between two units.

But more and more we hear of people starting colonies with all SREH.

John M

[RC Moser]

IMO don't think it makes differents if they can get in the srehs. Usually people that don't work, have hugh number cavities, live where starling aren't in great numbers, and can stock they colony all day long watching for starlings like round holes cause their not going to miss couple of Martins.

But somebody just starting out with one or two houses or gourd rack any martins ran off or killed by starling would be a disaster. Remember round holes was made from the woodpecker and PMs adapted to them just like they will adapt to different size and shape hole if they really want to nest there IMO. I know some don't like to hear this but change is sometimes good thing.

I don't like round holes cause they are too big for PMs. Let screech owls and starlings in and by the time you find out about it the damage has been done. If not expanded cavities or deep tunnel PMs can be plucked out by hawks or owls 6x6 cavity. IMO this is why they make mud dams to decrease the sizie of the hole. I have never seen a mud dam on Sreh. Has anybody seen this?

[JamesG]

RC, now that you mention it, I don't remember any dams in the gourd racks and the house with crescent and clinger type holes.
However, my old gourd rack that I took down had the round holes and every time I cleaned them out I noticed the mud dam.
There was no access to these gourds and it was a chore just to look in over the dam to check on the babies.
Funny how something can be right in front of your eyes and you don't see it....
James

[flyin-lowe]

I like many others started a colony with 100% SREH. All things considered if martins are not staying at your site there is a reason (and I don't think that SREH is the sole reason). I think if everything with your site is correct then the SREH will not keep the PM's from staying.

[Steve Kroenke]

RC,

My neighbor Bob used a number of T-14s with crescent entrances and large compartments for many years. Every season many of the females built huge mud dams in the compartments to create almost double nesting chambers. Some of these mud dams looked like barn swallow nests. The entrances were cut low down and almost flush with the porches.

It is not the entrance hole shape or size that often determines whether a female martin will build a mud dam. From what I have observed, it is how shallow the cavity is. If an entrance hole is low down, then a female martin may build a mud dam to reduce visibility inside the nest and help contain the eggs/young. If the compartment is small like the old 6" x 6" ones, then the mud dam is often built close to the entrance hole and I saw that in my old Trio houses. There is little room inside a 6" x 6" compartment so the mud dam has to be built near the entrance hole.

I see mud dams in my enlarged Trio compartment that are 6" x 12". The mud dam is not at the entrance hole but deeper inside to create a wall of seclusion for the nest. I have seen the same thing in the large compartments of Lone Star Goliads, too.

I never see mud dams in vertically deep cavities with entrances cut high up and rarely in gourds with tunneled entrance areas like the Troyer Gourd. I have seen mud dams in my vertical gourds, both natural and plastic where the entrance is cut a few inches above the bottoms. Again the mud dam may be built to obscure visibility inside the nest cavity and provide protection to the eggs/young.

Here is a link to one of my postings on mud dams including photos of mud dams in large compartments:

http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15044

Steve

[RC Moser]

WOW, I guess I have non-mud dam building purple martins. maybe it's because I really don't have water close by? I do see small clam shells from time to time in the nest chamber. I also think as suggested above some locations, no food source or lack of, and non-existents of PMs are why some can't get PMs.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Round holes often should be compared to seat belts, you don't need to wear a seat belt all the time, you may not need an SREH all the time. Its easier to exit and faster not to use a seat belt, just like it could possibly be easier for a martin to enter and exit a round hole. A round hole may even look better to most people, and a seat without straps looks better than having all those straps laying around.

The catch is that you never know when you will need a seat belt, just like you never know in advance if a starling will show up at your housing. These are the times when you want to wish that you were using them. This has happened to me, and it saddens you to see a nest of eggs or babies evicted because of the starlings entering when you didn't know it.

I would think that the people that use some round holes often drive short distances without using their seat belts, but most would deny this. I have a sister-in-law that drives around with her seat belt unbuckled and in her lap, she is afraid that she will not be able to get out of the car if an accident occurs, just like people with round holes think that martins will be able to better escape hawks.

Lastly, seat belts save lives, and SREH save martins. There is a very bad misconception that martins cannot enter them. If they are the correct size, then martins can and will enter them. Many new locations were started with SREH in areas where the SREH was never seen before. In closing, I will say that in most parts of the country the martins will be better off with SREH. If you have NO starlings, then round holes are ok to use.

[akp]

Last year was my first year trying to attract martins. I was successful with SREH crescent entrances. I started out with round holes and just couldn't keep up with the starlings. For every one I killed, 10 came back. I was never going to control them so I switched.

I had 2 pair successfully raise 7 young and I also had about 4 single SY males stay for the entire summer.

I guess round is fine if you don't have a starling problem. If you do, I see no reason to use round holes unless you have an enormous amount of time on your hands to defend your martin housing.

[parkerdes]

What great advice from so many experienced LLs!!!
This is only my 3rd season to have PMs here & what I did is checked out all the martin housing in my area to see what was offered. I started with a Nature House MSS12 because 80% of the housing is that here in my area. I did offer a few naturals but I do have Starlings that come early in the spring & again later when they are starting their 2nd nesting! I found that they were very attracted to deep cavities & round holes. I now only offer one round hole each on my 2 houses with 6x6 compartments & all the double compartments have SREHs. I had one SY pair last year use the 6x6 round hole compartment but all the other pairs used SREH expanded compartments or gourds. The only gourd I offer with a round hole is a Troyer tunnel with a trap hung under my trees & open only when I see a starling out investigating my site!
Good luck...it only took me 6 years trying to finally get my first 2 pair in 2009! Hope all the "wannabees" get martins this year!!!
It's definitely worth it!!! Hope this will be your year!!!

[flyin-lowe]

I have never researched this but are there any parts of the Country that don't have starlings? I know some landlords report not having a problem with them but are there any states with 0 starlings?

[RC Moser]

Emil, Amen