I want to say how sorry I am to all who suffered damage and even loss of life during these tornado outbreaks. Last year I experienced damage from a tornado to my home and all my Poles & systems. All poles were bent or downed and all eggs were lost. I was able to repair my poles and my martins renest for a really good year. It was a struggle and wasn't sure I wanted to continue. I did and this year added a Gemini rack.
I was peeking out the door of my cellar and watched my poles and racks ravaged by that tornado. Birds scattered to escape the debri and wind. It was awful to watch. Before the tornado hit I debated on wheather to lower the systems or not. I didn't because 1 would spin and the others would be really low. Bad mistake. Low is better than gone. Even if the Martins had flushed they would have come back. Hindsight is 20-20 huh.
This year has been even worse as far as high winds and thunderstorms. I started lowering my systems when bad weather was forecasted. I wasn't sure how the martins would react. They reacted positively. My systems have been down 2 days now due to high winds and storms this evening. You can tell the height by the fence behind. These photos show how they react now.
I also have a gemini rack holding 32 gourds. Doubles, bo9, bo11,troyers. Just a lot of weight. We had tornado warnings last week. Got hail strong winds came on the tv at night. I wanted to lower my rack so bad. But I new the birds was in it was dark. And the darn winch makes noise when lowering. So I had to lay in the bed listening to the wind. I tossed and turned all night. When I woke up it was standing but you should have seen it moving. I know the system said with stands strong winds. But just how strong? It is hard to figure out when to lower when the weather hits and its just to late. Any kind of storm weather I will just lower it now. Last year I had a crappy pole break in a storm. Lol I should already know better.
Harley I think allot of the systems that are made today are too high. If poles are made shorter then wind won't be as much of a factor . Some of todays systems are 16 ft. high and with the strong storms everyone has been experiencing they are surely going to bend or hit the ground .
I've seen colony sites that were only 10 ft. or less , but most of these sites weren't anything you could raise or lower or do nest checks in . One particular guy I've watched over the years has been successful with this type of setup for years. He has 45 to 50 pairs .
Chuck Abare has interesting observations on pole strength: http:///// ///.com/pm/structrl.htm
For example, he calculates that a 10' pole is about 3 times stronger than a 15' pole.
My site is very exposed and I have always lowered housing during storms. I do this even though the poles are now double thickness - a smaller pipe inside a larger diameter pipe.
I've kept it lowered as long as three days. The martins just don't care, but it is important to prevent rotation.
chickadee, I know what you mean. We had a storm blow up after dark with high winds. My poles (except for the Gemini) were waving and moving badly. As I said before low is better than gone. I knew I had to do something, Winds would be 60-70 mph in less than an hour. I decided to lower them. They were shaking so badly I gambled. About 6 birds flushed from the Gemini but none of the others. They quickly went back in so my gamble paid off. Bad storm that night. I honestly feel they were shaking so badly that my careful movement didn't bother them . As you said the winch clicks.
M.Stephens I agree. I think 10 ft is sufficient height. That's about what all of mine raise to except the Gemini and 10' is where I put it by choice. Not knocking anyone but I too think most new poles are too high but seems that allot of landlords feel that the higher the better. They are entitled to their opinion, I just don't subscribe to that school of thought and a tornado will fast cause them to revisit that thought.
Mary, I think there is allot of merit to the 10' vs. 15' thought. I fixed my Retro pole so it wouldn't spin when lowered. By the way, you have a beautiful sight. Love the water.
I am sure you are right that many colonies would be better off with shorter poles. However, no two sites are alike and tall poles have advantages at some sites.
Tim Shaheen and Alan Jackson are super-mentors in New Jersey.
They have reported that extra-tall poles are the key to starting martin colonies in areas with a lot of trees. Of course, such sites might have more protection from wind, thus less pole strength needed.
Tall poles can also protect martins from hawks. Here's how:
When my martins leave their housing they often drop straight down to accelerate before leveling off just above ground level.
Tall poles = more acceleration = more protection from hawk attack.
I lowered my occupied housing for the first time during the storms last week. I had them at "half-mast" for almost four days. I did what I could at the time to keep the gourd rack from rotating on the pole but it still rotated almost 90 degrees.
I have to say that the birds did not seem to mind at all. In fact, my population INCREASED 50% with the gourds only about 6'off the ground to the lower set!
I'll have no problem lowering the rack in the future with bad storms coming.
I find that weather the pole is 10 ft or 16 a storm is going to move it. Iv always liked and heard pole needs to be 10 to 15 ft. I like 12. When I got books and seen the other systems that are 16 ft like what I bought, I did not understand. I thought it was taller then what they need. But mary has put it in prospective for me. How it can be helpful for them with a higher pole. Mary I have seen a lot of post saying welcome back. You sound like a martin goddess! Where ever you have been, I would like to say welcome back! Keep passing along your wisdom.
Luckily, tornado's are rare or used to be anyway. Most systems can handle Thunder Storm winds. Tornado's are a whole different animal. I have never lowered mine and they have been through some pretty hefty storms...... back when we used to get rain. After seeing what happened to Steve, I guess I will lower them if Tornado's are a possibility.
At my old colony, two of my poles were 3" square aluminum, 16' tall. After my first year, I never had the housing on these poles, whether the gourd rack or the multi-purpose pole raised to their highest elevation. I would keep them about two feet from the top and when storms were predicted, I would lower them down to about 10'. In late June and July, I would raise them to their highest elevation to give the fledglings a couple more feet of height for their maiden flight. (One of my poles was over water and I wanted to give the fledglings all the help possible for that first "leap".)
Obviously, lower is better during high wind conditions. Type of pole, housing on the pole, strength of wind and duration of wind all play a role in pole failure. No one knows if they are going to be hit with a tornado or if the tornado will be an EF1 versus and EF5. A good strong pole to start your colony is a must.
Tim
Licensed Bander
2015 - 14 Pair - fledged 68
2014 - Moved to Kansas - 7 Pair, 35 eggs, 28 fledged in first year
2010 Thru 2013 - Moved-Tried to start new colony
2009 - 46 pair, 217 eggs, 178 fledged
I worry a lot about poles and have added poles inside poles to several.
Wondering if a higher ground stake inside a square pole would be the same as lowering. It would add cost and be more difficult to get the rack onto. But if the inside stake came up into the pole another two feet, would not that be the same as lowering two feet and so on?
First off, tall poles themselves are not necessarily bad, especially if they are needed. When you have tall poles, you must reduce the amount of weight on that pole, Compared to a low heavy gourd rack or heavy house, that lightweight house will do ok if its 20ft tall. If you have a 20ft pole, you should limit the weight on that pole to about 10 or 15 pounds. If you have a 60 or 70 lbs of house (or gourds), then you need to use a stronger shorter pole. That seems to be the solution
One of the most common mistakes that people make is that they purchase a lightweight house, a lightweight pole, put it up high (like 16ft), and then more than double the weight of the house with gourds hanging underneath that house. The added gourds greatly increase the wind resistance. That is bad, and should not be done. Maybe you can add a couple gourds, especially if they are lightweight like a natural gourd or a small BO9 gourd that weighs about a pound. But please folks, do not add 6 heavy gourds to such a lightweight setup! Such a pole will quickly bend in a thunderstorm if it is overloaded.
Like mentioned above in the grand scheme of things the odds of getting hit by a tornado are low. I know that sounds bad given the recent events but most people on this forum will never in their life see a tornado at their property. That said in a true tornado I don't think it would matter if you had your housing lowered or not. The weird thing I have seen about tornados is they can do major damage to one property and the next place over will look like it is not touched. I know it is not feasible all the time but it is best to use a pole that will withstand normal summer storms and wind (short of a tornado). If that is not an option then lowering the housing when you have advanced notice of strong winds is the way to go. My T14 is on a 3.5 inch pole and it is 17 foot in the air with 4 gourds under it. I recently added a AAA gourd rack that is only 14 foot tall but it has a 2 inch square pole. I have had the T14 up in 60+mph winds and it does not move. The AAA rack moves a few inches but not much. I do lower it when storms are forecasted.
After seeing what happened to Steve, I guess I will lower them if Tornado's are a possibility.