Pine straw question
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Guest
My eariler post about straw did not get answered. I am going to work on a theory. How much pine straw should I use. I put quite a bit in the big gourds and filled the nest trays on the t-14 even withe top of the little board dam. How much is too much or to little? Last year I did not have near as much housing and they built their own even the loner guy. Anybody think this could be it for the no shows?
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Fill the gourds so that the nesting material is level with the entrance. Press it down well (but it will sink lower over time)
On your nest trays, fill them level after the pine straw is pressed down.
It really is not that important how you do it, as many people don't put any nesting material into the cavity, but it helps to keep the martins off the ground, and possible protection from hawks that catch them when they are on the ground.
I grab a handfull, pull the loose stuff off the ends, and cut on each side of my hand, this makes the straw about 4 to 5in long. Its easier to work with when the pine straw is cut shorter than natural.
Too much is when the martins cannot easily enter the cavity because you have it blocked, or get to the top of the nest tray.
On your nest trays, fill them level after the pine straw is pressed down.
It really is not that important how you do it, as many people don't put any nesting material into the cavity, but it helps to keep the martins off the ground, and possible protection from hawks that catch them when they are on the ground.
I grab a handfull, pull the loose stuff off the ends, and cut on each side of my hand, this makes the straw about 4 to 5in long. Its easier to work with when the pine straw is cut shorter than natural.
Too much is when the martins cannot easily enter the cavity because you have it blocked, or get to the top of the nest tray.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
Robert,
I build pre-nests of pine straw in all my gourds and house compartments including any nest trays. Try to arrange the pine straw so that it does not stick up all over the place. The best pine straw I have used comes from a road where cars/trucks have softened it some. This makes it easier to press down into a nest and even have a nest bowl. My nests are relatively thick and do not block any entrance hole. This thickness depends on the vertical depth from the bottom of the entrance hole to the bottom of the gourd/house compartment. Most of my nests are near the bottom on the entrance with a nest bowl depression created toward the back of the gourd/house compartment.
Here is a link to an indepth article about using pre-nests in purple martin housing; you may have already read it:
http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=376
Steve
I build pre-nests of pine straw in all my gourds and house compartments including any nest trays. Try to arrange the pine straw so that it does not stick up all over the place. The best pine straw I have used comes from a road where cars/trucks have softened it some. This makes it easier to press down into a nest and even have a nest bowl. My nests are relatively thick and do not block any entrance hole. This thickness depends on the vertical depth from the bottom of the entrance hole to the bottom of the gourd/house compartment. Most of my nests are near the bottom on the entrance with a nest bowl depression created toward the back of the gourd/house compartment.
Here is a link to an indepth article about using pre-nests in purple martin housing; you may have already read it:
http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=376
Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
300+ pairs of martins each season
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Guest
Emil and Steve
I really appreciate the answers. That just about what I did except my straw was already 5" long. Slash pine. Also an oil company has start drilling about 150 yards due east of the housing and my house, with the derrick and all the lights they use mess up the PMs directions? There are woods between us and the derrick. We can see it a little at ground level but a lot from the air. I have no royalties in it by the way.
They do not make a lot of noise and I do not think that it is in their fly way. It just was not here last year. I just do not know anymore.
I really appreciate the answers. That just about what I did except my straw was already 5" long. Slash pine. Also an oil company has start drilling about 150 yards due east of the housing and my house, with the derrick and all the lights they use mess up the PMs directions? There are woods between us and the derrick. We can see it a little at ground level but a lot from the air. I have no royalties in it by the way.
They do not make a lot of noise and I do not think that it is in their fly way. It just was not here last year. I just do not know anymore.-
Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
My son had a pool being built, trucks hauling, front end loader, etc right beside the pool, and the martins paid no attention to the activity when they arrived. You have nothing to worry about the oil activity.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Dave Duit
- Posts: 2145
- Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:02 pm
- Location: Iowa / Nevada
- Martin Colony History: In 2024, 82 pair with 350 fledged youngsters. 110 total cavities available, 82 Troyer Horizontal gourds and a homemade PVC / metal 28 compartment unit, 1 fallout shelter. Hawk and owl guards included. Martin educator and speaker. President and founder of the Iowa Purple Martin Organization. Please visit Iowa Purple Martin Organization on Facebook link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1627283871068161 Emails send to daveduit@yahoo.com. Subject line include Iowa Purple Martin.
I fill my gourds level with the entrances being sure not to block the entrance. About a half mile from my colony a China company decided to put up two huge wind generators. Here in Iowa the wind is ideal for the wind generators.
I don't think it will do much damage. I do know that if birds get too close to the blades, they are killed instantly from the air compression; especially small birds and bats.
I don't think it will do much damage. I do know that if birds get too close to the blades, they are killed instantly from the air compression; especially small birds and bats.
when we first got purple martins about ten years ago they only used pinestraw in their nest but after a few years they started using sticks and leaves to make their nest. and if i put pinestraw in some of the nest for them they either won't use the nest or they throw the pinestraw out and build with the sticks. there is plenty of pinestraw for them to use but they won't use it.
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Guest
ccarlin
I don't think anyone will ever completely understand PMs. That may be why I dont have any yet. I did not use anything last year and they built their own.
I don't think anyone will ever completely understand PMs. That may be why I dont have any yet. I did not use anything last year and they built their own.
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Linda Reynolds
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Adamsville, TN
We do not totally need to understand martins in order to assist them.........however, their interaction with us is magical.
If they do not like what you offer, they will remove it from the gourd or cavity. If you are new at this and they do not like what you offer, simply..........discontinue offering it. When cleaning out your gourds or cavities at the end of the season, pay attention to what YOUR martins are using. It is probably very different than the martins in Iowa or Tennessee, if you are living in Illinois.
The pre-nest material that many landlords provide, mostly in the form of pine needles/straw is added to assist martins to fill cavities, and create some warmth upon arrival. A nice deep layer of pine needles or straw sure beats arriving and skidding onto a cold naked surface.
The martins in our neck of the woods spin their own nest bowls and then build the actual nest. It is usually lined with some additional material and then topped with green leaves just before eggs appear. It is not a structured nest as those built by robins, cardinals, or wrens. It is generally a loose nest layered on top of a nesting material base.
Each regional area differs in what materials resident martins will add to any pre-nest material offered by humans. Many times what they use depends upon what is growing in YOUR area.
Paul and I offer a supplemental feeding station that also serves as a nest material station. It is a platform that the martins have learned to visit to find items they need, be it supplemental food (when needed), or nesting material. We offer cut lengths of pine needles, oak leaves, and their favorite......... pieces of tamale wrappers, or corn husks cut into small pieces. We like the store bought brand of tamale wrappers because they are fit for human consumption and do not contain mold as would natural corn husks from the field.
We simply put handfuls of cut lengths of pine needles into our gourds, and pound them down as best we can simply using our hand/fist. You will be amazed at how much two adult martins will compress this material in just a few weeks. We do nothing more. They spin their own nest bowls when ready to lay eggs, they also collect their own additional nesting material, and green leaves..........many of our martins use the cut lengths of tamale wrappers that we offer on our supplemental feeding/nesting material platform. They are water tight and the martins really love them.
White pine needles (that are the softest) are produced in clusters of five needles per bunch held together by a nub that falls from the cone. The cone is loose and fragile.
Loblolly pine that is found in the south, produces a cluster of three needles held together by a nub that is released from the cone. The cone is firm and structured. A Google IMAGE search will show you the difference. These needles are not as soft, but will do for pre-nest material. I recommend that the needles be bunched and cut..........as they are more firm than white pine needles and not as flexible.
Hope this information helps our newest landlords.
If they do not like what you offer, they will remove it from the gourd or cavity. If you are new at this and they do not like what you offer, simply..........discontinue offering it. When cleaning out your gourds or cavities at the end of the season, pay attention to what YOUR martins are using. It is probably very different than the martins in Iowa or Tennessee, if you are living in Illinois.
The pre-nest material that many landlords provide, mostly in the form of pine needles/straw is added to assist martins to fill cavities, and create some warmth upon arrival. A nice deep layer of pine needles or straw sure beats arriving and skidding onto a cold naked surface.
The martins in our neck of the woods spin their own nest bowls and then build the actual nest. It is usually lined with some additional material and then topped with green leaves just before eggs appear. It is not a structured nest as those built by robins, cardinals, or wrens. It is generally a loose nest layered on top of a nesting material base.
Each regional area differs in what materials resident martins will add to any pre-nest material offered by humans. Many times what they use depends upon what is growing in YOUR area.
Paul and I offer a supplemental feeding station that also serves as a nest material station. It is a platform that the martins have learned to visit to find items they need, be it supplemental food (when needed), or nesting material. We offer cut lengths of pine needles, oak leaves, and their favorite......... pieces of tamale wrappers, or corn husks cut into small pieces. We like the store bought brand of tamale wrappers because they are fit for human consumption and do not contain mold as would natural corn husks from the field.
We simply put handfuls of cut lengths of pine needles into our gourds, and pound them down as best we can simply using our hand/fist. You will be amazed at how much two adult martins will compress this material in just a few weeks. We do nothing more. They spin their own nest bowls when ready to lay eggs, they also collect their own additional nesting material, and green leaves..........many of our martins use the cut lengths of tamale wrappers that we offer on our supplemental feeding/nesting material platform. They are water tight and the martins really love them.
White pine needles (that are the softest) are produced in clusters of five needles per bunch held together by a nub that falls from the cone. The cone is loose and fragile.
Loblolly pine that is found in the south, produces a cluster of three needles held together by a nub that is released from the cone. The cone is firm and structured. A Google IMAGE search will show you the difference. These needles are not as soft, but will do for pre-nest material. I recommend that the needles be bunched and cut..........as they are more firm than white pine needles and not as flexible.
Hope this information helps our newest landlords.
Ever-Grateful,
Linda
Linda
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Guest
Linda,
I used the slash pine because they were older and softer and shorter than the loblolly. We have no white pine in this area at all unless I order some from the east. However in fairness, We have had more rain in the last 3 weeks than all of the last 18 months. I have my feeder trays up and the I am have been eating the thawed mealies that I put out there between the rains. Thank Goodness for the rain. now I can seethe robins and the BBs pulling earthworm out of the grass. Something we did not see last year. So for right now every thing is looking up. Except for the PMs and I think they will be back soon. I rechecked all the nest yesterday and everything look comfortable and dry. Excuse the pun, but I guess I'm clutching at straws so the saying goes. Just looking for everything that "could be". Any other idea from some of the other Gurus. BTW if I were a martin I would use one of the whistle gourds, you could really entertain in one of those.
I used the slash pine because they were older and softer and shorter than the loblolly. We have no white pine in this area at all unless I order some from the east. However in fairness, We have had more rain in the last 3 weeks than all of the last 18 months. I have my feeder trays up and the I am have been eating the thawed mealies that I put out there between the rains. Thank Goodness for the rain. now I can seethe robins and the BBs pulling earthworm out of the grass. Something we did not see last year. So for right now every thing is looking up. Except for the PMs and I think they will be back soon. I rechecked all the nest yesterday and everything look comfortable and dry. Excuse the pun, but I guess I'm clutching at straws
so the saying goes. Just looking for everything that "could be". Any other idea from some of the other Gurus. BTW if I were a martin I would use one of the whistle gourds, you could really entertain in one of those.-
Linda Reynolds
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Adamsville, TN
Robert/Bob/bnowlin, it sure sounds as if you are doing the very best that you can. The TX drought has been awful, and any extra measures that landlords take are certainly worth applause.
I am not familiar with slash pine, but think you can probably lend more information and helpful hints to Texans that are looking for pine straw/needles.
Post what you know about the variety you offer, and how you offer the needles. I am sure lots of Texans want to know. There are certainly alternatives to the every-popular and highly recommended white pine needles, but most of us have no other alternative that to offer what is available in our area. Realistically, that might be the best thing to do.
Much good luck is wished for you and all other Texas landlords this season. I hope the drought is over and that you experience buggy skies.
I am not familiar with slash pine, but think you can probably lend more information and helpful hints to Texans that are looking for pine straw/needles.
Post what you know about the variety you offer, and how you offer the needles. I am sure lots of Texans want to know. There are certainly alternatives to the every-popular and highly recommended white pine needles, but most of us have no other alternative that to offer what is available in our area. Realistically, that might be the best thing to do.
Much good luck is wished for you and all other Texas landlords this season. I hope the drought is over and that you experience buggy skies.
Ever-Grateful,
Linda
Linda
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Guest
Linda,
East Texas has basically 3 pine species. Long leaf, Loblolly, and slash and some smaller slash pine we call field pine. Field pine is not much use for timber or pulp wood. It is all Souther yellow pine. The lumber etc. are harder than white pine. And each different species has a different straw and wood texture with Long leaf being the best Lumber tree and the needles are sometimes 12 to 14 inches long. The loggers will take these first because it is easy to cut and usually sells for more, with the loblolly next with a little tighter wood structure and about 8 inch needles, with the slash pine next because the limbs are usually lower to the ground causing more knots thus not quality lumber or plywood. Most of the time the needles are only 4 or 5 inches long and to me are thinner causing them to be softer. I was raised in the country and that is what we used mostly for chicken nest along with whatever soft grasses or hay we could find. For some reason last years drought did not cause the needles to fall, at least around my place. The trees just turned brown and died. Plus we had the major fires all around East Texas and Bastrop State park killed millions of trees. Most all the big ones that were burned and not quit dead were harvested before the wood turned blue. All of the above is my opinion. Just think of all the wildlife that perished in those fires. Some got away and that is why I see some birds like some huge black and white woodpecker that I have not seen since I was a kid. I even seen a Kingfisher down at the pond the other day accually catching small fish.
East Texas has basically 3 pine species. Long leaf, Loblolly, and slash and some smaller slash pine we call field pine. Field pine is not much use for timber or pulp wood. It is all Souther yellow pine. The lumber etc. are harder than white pine. And each different species has a different straw and wood texture with Long leaf being the best Lumber tree and the needles are sometimes 12 to 14 inches long. The loggers will take these first because it is easy to cut and usually sells for more, with the loblolly next with a little tighter wood structure and about 8 inch needles, with the slash pine next because the limbs are usually lower to the ground causing more knots thus not quality lumber or plywood. Most of the time the needles are only 4 or 5 inches long and to me are thinner causing them to be softer. I was raised in the country and that is what we used mostly for chicken nest along with whatever soft grasses or hay we could find. For some reason last years drought did not cause the needles to fall, at least around my place. The trees just turned brown and died. Plus we had the major fires all around East Texas and Bastrop State park killed millions of trees. Most all the big ones that were burned and not quit dead were harvested before the wood turned blue. All of the above is my opinion. Just think of all the wildlife that perished in those fires. Some got away and that is why I see some birds like some huge black and white woodpecker that I have not seen since I was a kid. I even seen a Kingfisher down at the pond the other day accually catching small fish.