TO : " ALL "
This is YEAR 10 of patiently waiting and now find that I once again am turning to " ALL " of you for your opinions and good advice, as the season for the arrival of sub-adults will soon be in our area. After 10 LONG years, I would like to know if it has finally reached a time to make a BIG change at my site ??? My site is wide open and trees are NOT an issue. I have 3 converted TRIO houses, a Gemini ROUND rack with 15 gourds of different types on the TOP level ONLY, leaving the lower level empty AND another 20 foot gourd rack with 12 gourds at the corner of my property that opens to a wide-open fly-away. I an mainly using the large Excluder Gourds, Troyer Horizontal Gourds and Troyer Vertical Gourds with TUNNELS, Super Gourds with TUNNELS and Super Gourds with Crescent holes.
Another issue that I would like to address is that over the years I have had Purple Martins visit my site on a regular basis to VISIT only, but never stayed overnight with several that were BACHELOR MALES that could NOT attract a female who would stay.
QUESTIONS FOR YOU : What is your opinion as to having TOO much housing ??? What is your opinion as to making any changes, including reducing the amount of cavities ??? LASTLY, there are ( 3 ) LARGE colonies that are within 2-3 miles of where I live !!! What is your opinion on this being a major factor ???
HOPEFULLY, your good advice with bring me Purple Martins this year !!!
" Beggin4Birds "
10 YEARS and STILL WAITING !
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Doug Martin - PA
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:47 am
- Location: Pennsylvania/Fombell
- Martin Colony History: First pair in 2009 after 28 years of trying. 3 pairs 2010, 17 pairs 2011 and 35-45 pairs since. Many additional colonies are now springing up around mine in an area once completely void of Martins. I offer 50 compartments at my site consisting of primarily Excluder II gourds on Gemini racks. Also a wooden T-14. I utilize electric fence type predator guards on the base of the poles. Supplemental feeding is crucial in maintaining my colony. I platform feed throughout the season as needed. My site tends to be a stop over point for additional birds as they migrate further north.
OK it sounds like you have good housing. At least the gourd part of it. That is not an issue. (You may be too far north for metal housing.)
Do you have any nearby water? Within a mile or so? Is the area around you primarily farmland or forest?
You may have large colonies nearby..... but apparently they are not in overflow mode.
It sounds like you need to monitor those close sites a little and get a feel for what is happeniing there.
I tried for many years with all types of housing with the same result as you. But once the big sites began supp. feeding and overflowing that changed here.
What typically happens in the north is weather continually knocks down the population at a large colony. Then it fills back up in succeeding years like a magnet. Then it happens again over and over. Martins in your area will continue to fill the void created by casuallties of bad weather events at the larger sites.
It only takes one displaced pair or a few subbie males to get it started. You can't have too much housing unless you are letting competitors nest in it.
You should have great success with dawnsong played loudly from a powerhorn toward those colonies before or around memorial day.
EDIT: In looking at a google map (Walkersville) you don't have much in the way of a large body of water nearby. That can make it tougher for you and for Martins to survive cold spells. Look at Eldersburg area... that is ideal. Liberty reservoir is a good body of water.
Doug
Do you have any nearby water? Within a mile or so? Is the area around you primarily farmland or forest?
You may have large colonies nearby..... but apparently they are not in overflow mode.
It sounds like you need to monitor those close sites a little and get a feel for what is happeniing there.
I tried for many years with all types of housing with the same result as you. But once the big sites began supp. feeding and overflowing that changed here.
What typically happens in the north is weather continually knocks down the population at a large colony. Then it fills back up in succeeding years like a magnet. Then it happens again over and over. Martins in your area will continue to fill the void created by casuallties of bad weather events at the larger sites.
It only takes one displaced pair or a few subbie males to get it started. You can't have too much housing unless you are letting competitors nest in it.
You should have great success with dawnsong played loudly from a powerhorn toward those colonies before or around memorial day.
EDIT: In looking at a google map (Walkersville) you don't have much in the way of a large body of water nearby. That can make it tougher for you and for Martins to survive cold spells. Look at Eldersburg area... that is ideal. Liberty reservoir is a good body of water.
Doug
Supplemental feeding plays a major role in Western Pennsylvania. Finally got my 1st pair in 2009 after 28 years of effort. The colony has grown quickly to 45 pairs that I care for. Many new colonies have now sprung up around me in the past few years as well. Where there was none.... there is many.
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
DOUG :
Read your posting on the Forum and wanted to respond to several of your comments. First of all, we are surrounded primarily by farmland and NO woods. There is an area of swampland within a 1/4 mile of my site. Also, the MONOCACY RIVER is within a 1/2 mile of my site but I have no pond on my property.
" Beggin4Birds "
Read your posting on the Forum and wanted to respond to several of your comments. First of all, we are surrounded primarily by farmland and NO woods. There is an area of swampland within a 1/4 mile of my site. Also, the MONOCACY RIVER is within a 1/2 mile of my site but I have no pond on my property.
" Beggin4Birds "
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Trishy
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: Wisconsin/Shell Lake
- Martin Colony History: Colony started in 2009 with 2 pair.
Currently I have 3 gourd racks with 24 gourds. One gourd rack will be for sy arrivals only.
Bo Eleven gourds 20
Do you have nesting material in your housing? Do you have decoys up? Do you play the dawnsong? When I was trying to attract martins I would stick decoys in gourds/houses with their head sticking out. I don't know if it helped or not, but eventually I got a subbie interested in checking things out, and the following year he brought a mate. I also muddied up the gourds and tried to give them the lived in look. Others have also put small mirrors in housing so martins would see other martins. Just a few ideas. Maybe you have tried all of these. Good luck. I hope you can get one to stay.
Trish
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
TRISHY :
Believe it or not, we have tried all of your suggestions for attracting martins in the past several years. Several friends and landlords donated used nests and I also put them in different gourds, hoping that this might help. At this point, I am wondering if I need to change things around or leave things exactly as I have had them ???
" Beggin4Birds "
Believe it or not, we have tried all of your suggestions for attracting martins in the past several years. Several friends and landlords donated used nests and I also put them in different gourds, hoping that this might help. At this point, I am wondering if I need to change things around or leave things exactly as I have had them ???
" Beggin4Birds "
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~Ray~Gingerich
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:24 pm
- Location: Delaware/Dover
It might pay to have a pond put in on your property and place some of your houses along the pond bank. Martins love to dive off the houses and take a drink or splash into the water. Get some insects going, maybe dragon fly habitat or keep a few animals that attract flies etc.....housing, food and water right at your place. What else would a martin need?
~Ray~ Gingerich
1999 1pair, 2006 2 pair, 2008 2 pair,
2009 23 pair, 2010 39 pair, 2011 67 pair,
2012 115 pair, 2013 160 pair,
2014 152 pair, 2015 174 pair, 2016 178 pair
2017 187 pair, 2018 200 pair, 2019 171pair
2020 233 pair
1999 1pair, 2006 2 pair, 2008 2 pair,
2009 23 pair, 2010 39 pair, 2011 67 pair,
2012 115 pair, 2013 160 pair,
2014 152 pair, 2015 174 pair, 2016 178 pair
2017 187 pair, 2018 200 pair, 2019 171pair
2020 233 pair
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
RAY :
Thank you for your rapid response on the Forum, regarding the suggestion of a pond on my property. I have often wished for a pond also . . . . BUT unfortunately that is impossible on my property, as I do not have enough property to put in a pond. I am sure that a pond would bring me rapid success, but look at the many landlords that do NOT have ponds and have Purple Martins. If there were any way that I could . . . .
I WOULD, but I CAN'T !!!
" Beggin4Birds "
Thank you for your rapid response on the Forum, regarding the suggestion of a pond on my property. I have often wished for a pond also . . . . BUT unfortunately that is impossible on my property, as I do not have enough property to put in a pond. I am sure that a pond would bring me rapid success, but look at the many landlords that do NOT have ponds and have Purple Martins. If there were any way that I could . . . .
I WOULD, but I CAN'T !!!
" Beggin4Birds "
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
To : " ALL "
More thoughts concerning the " DAWNSONG " ! While I have faithfully played the " DAWNSONG " in the past, especially when the sub-adults begin arriving in my area, I still have concerns as to wether it helps or hurts ones chances of getting martins to STAY, rather than visit and move on. The " DAWNSONG " definitely brings the martins in to VISIT, but . . . once they come and hear the CD and see NO OTHER BIRDS, this could be a big issue also as the reason for them not staying. It can fool them into coming but it can't fool them into STAYING ! I still say that there are pros and cons with using the " DAWNSONG ". MANY of my friends who have been landlords for years and years, never used the " DAWNSONG " to draw martins to their site and surprisingly enough MANY, MANY never have even heard of " DAWNSONG " . I sometimes look at it as a fooler as these birds are extremely intelligent and CANNOT be fooled. I realize that it may help but I also know that it is NOT going to make them stay. This is definitely a tool to attract, but look at all of those who have NEVER used it or know nothing about " DAWNSONG " !!!
What would " YOU " do if you were in my shoes this year with subbies that will soon be arriving in my area ??? Will my chances of getting my first pair drop significantly if I do not play it ???
" Beggin4Birds "
More thoughts concerning the " DAWNSONG " ! While I have faithfully played the " DAWNSONG " in the past, especially when the sub-adults begin arriving in my area, I still have concerns as to wether it helps or hurts ones chances of getting martins to STAY, rather than visit and move on. The " DAWNSONG " definitely brings the martins in to VISIT, but . . . once they come and hear the CD and see NO OTHER BIRDS, this could be a big issue also as the reason for them not staying. It can fool them into coming but it can't fool them into STAYING ! I still say that there are pros and cons with using the " DAWNSONG ". MANY of my friends who have been landlords for years and years, never used the " DAWNSONG " to draw martins to their site and surprisingly enough MANY, MANY never have even heard of " DAWNSONG " . I sometimes look at it as a fooler as these birds are extremely intelligent and CANNOT be fooled. I realize that it may help but I also know that it is NOT going to make them stay. This is definitely a tool to attract, but look at all of those who have NEVER used it or know nothing about " DAWNSONG " !!!
What would " YOU " do if you were in my shoes this year with subbies that will soon be arriving in my area ??? Will my chances of getting my first pair drop significantly if I do not play it ???
" Beggin4Birds "
Hi Beggin4birds. I think you may have a point. I have tried for 5 years to get PM's and I'm on the fence about this method. I play the calls through a horn speaker atop of my gourd rack. At first they take notice, but then they ignore it as if to say..."not this time".
I will continue to use the calls though. I guess it's better to have a visitor once in a while than none at all.
I will continue to use the calls though. I guess it's better to have a visitor once in a while than none at all.
Buddy Sowell
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
BuddyS :
As you said, the martins act the exact same way at my site. And . . . like you said, a visitor is better than none at all. I tend to think at times that the chances of them coming on their own and without " DAWNSONG " is MORE NORMAL and therefore they might be more inclined to STAY without the distraction of a loud CD powered to the sky and NO martins in sight when they fly over to investigate !!! The martins certainly have to wonder why so many birds are there and yet they see NONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I said before, I consider " DAWNSONG " a tool for attracting martins but in no way a remendy for getting them to STAY.
As you said, the martins act the exact same way at my site. And . . . like you said, a visitor is better than none at all. I tend to think at times that the chances of them coming on their own and without " DAWNSONG " is MORE NORMAL and therefore they might be more inclined to STAY without the distraction of a loud CD powered to the sky and NO martins in sight when they fly over to investigate !!! The martins certainly have to wonder why so many birds are there and yet they see NONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I said before, I consider " DAWNSONG " a tool for attracting martins but in no way a remendy for getting them to STAY.
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Jack Petty-IL
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:51 pm
- Location: Illinois
One thing I didn't see addressed here was the type of openings you have compared to what your other landlords are using. If their using all round holes, you may want to have some round also. Do you have any nesting tree swallows? they will be highly territorial of your site if you do, or other cavity nesters like flycatchers or some other type of nearby nesters. Dawnsong should be fine to use and housing and water sound good. With use of decoys and controlling SS (starling and sparrows) its just a matter of time and you should get a pair or more. Good Luck!
Jack-IL
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
Jack Petty-IL :
Nice hearing from you with something that I did not mention, regarding the type entrances that other landlords are using in my area. Many, but not all are using Super Gourds with ROUND holes. These are colonies that have had martins for many years and as you know, many people loved ROUND holes when they started out years ago and have stuck with them over the years. MANY of them have sparrows and starlings that love ROUND holes also. I have offered only a few Super Gourds with ROUND holes at my site and have not had an issue with these birds because I have tried to eliminate this problem with starling proof entrances. I described my gourds and entrances in my FIRST posting. I keep close watch on my site and offer only a few ROUND holes to give them a choice when they arrive.
" Beggin4Birds "
Nice hearing from you with something that I did not mention, regarding the type entrances that other landlords are using in my area. Many, but not all are using Super Gourds with ROUND holes. These are colonies that have had martins for many years and as you know, many people loved ROUND holes when they started out years ago and have stuck with them over the years. MANY of them have sparrows and starlings that love ROUND holes also. I have offered only a few Super Gourds with ROUND holes at my site and have not had an issue with these birds because I have tried to eliminate this problem with starling proof entrances. I described my gourds and entrances in my FIRST posting. I keep close watch on my site and offer only a few ROUND holes to give them a choice when they arrive.
" Beggin4Birds "
DEAR BEGGING, I WOULD OFFER, NOT A FEW, BUT SEVERAL ROUND HOLES, IF NOT ALL, UNTILL YOU GET STARTED. WHY MAKE IT HARDER FOR THEM TO GET IN FOR A LOOK AROUND. YOU MAY HAVE MORE OF A PROBLEM WITH STARLINGS, BUT YOU HAVE A BETTER CHANCE TO GET MARTINS TOO, IN MY OPINION. YOU "CAN" DEAL WITH STARLINGS, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE THE MARTINS COME IN AND NEST UNLESS THEY WANT TO. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT PONDS, AND I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE DAWN SONG THING TOO; IT WON'T MAKE THEM STAY. GOOD LUCK. THREE.
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
lucky3 :
I read your posting and appreciate your advice. I have a selection of gourds with starling proof entrances along with the several Super Gourds with ROUND holes. I have tried to capture a variety of the best gourds out there to give the martins a CHOICE and to be more safe from starlings and sparrows at the same time. The combination of Super Gourds, Troyer Horizontal and Vertical Gourds and Excluder Gourds gives them that choice.
" Beggin4Birds "
I read your posting and appreciate your advice. I have a selection of gourds with starling proof entrances along with the several Super Gourds with ROUND holes. I have tried to capture a variety of the best gourds out there to give the martins a CHOICE and to be more safe from starlings and sparrows at the same time. The combination of Super Gourds, Troyer Horizontal and Vertical Gourds and Excluder Gourds gives them that choice.
" Beggin4Birds "
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DakotaLady
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:06 pm
- Location: Bismarck, ND
Beggin4Birds,
I tried getting martins since 1995. I tried everything and in 2008 had one pair raise nestlings, nothing in 2009, then one pair again in 2010 and nothing until 2012 when I had 4 pair successfully raise young.
I believe by the sounds of your posts you have done just about everything too. Offer a variety of housing, have open flyways, keep out the S&S and play the DawnSong.
I would play the DawnSong and once the birds came in, I would let it play a few minutes and then I would turn it off and let them investigate. The reason I turned it off is I had a lonely male come every time I played the DawnSong. I had a ghetto blaster on my deck and he would fly over to the ghetto blaster and hover trying to find the other birds. I felt bad for him and would turn it off once he came. That worked for me as he would then relax and sit on the housing and groom himself. Shortly after that he brought in a mate and several other pairs.
I think this is one of the toughest hobbies as you cannot buy a martin. You can only build up the housing but after that you are at the mercy of Mother Nature and the luck of the bird gods.
Good luck. I sure hope after all your waiting that you get some birds soon. The end result is so worth the long painful wait.
I tried getting martins since 1995. I tried everything and in 2008 had one pair raise nestlings, nothing in 2009, then one pair again in 2010 and nothing until 2012 when I had 4 pair successfully raise young.
I believe by the sounds of your posts you have done just about everything too. Offer a variety of housing, have open flyways, keep out the S&S and play the DawnSong.
I would play the DawnSong and once the birds came in, I would let it play a few minutes and then I would turn it off and let them investigate. The reason I turned it off is I had a lonely male come every time I played the DawnSong. I had a ghetto blaster on my deck and he would fly over to the ghetto blaster and hover trying to find the other birds. I felt bad for him and would turn it off once he came. That worked for me as he would then relax and sit on the housing and groom himself. Shortly after that he brought in a mate and several other pairs.
I think this is one of the toughest hobbies as you cannot buy a martin. You can only build up the housing but after that you are at the mercy of Mother Nature and the luck of the bird gods.
Good luck. I sure hope after all your waiting that you get some birds soon. The end result is so worth the long painful wait.
~Tangula~
2013 - 16 pair, 79 eggs, 71 fledged
2012 - 4 pair, 18 eggs, 18 fledged
2013 - 16 pair, 79 eggs, 71 fledged
2012 - 4 pair, 18 eggs, 18 fledged
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
DakotaLady :
I read your post and wanted to let you know that I agree with everything that you have said regarding your experiences. As you stated,
the " DAWNSONG " can distract an investigating martin as well as attract them. Too loud of music and continually playing it while the martins are checking out a site can definitely cause them to come for a while, BUT eventuallly leave when they hear the music and see NO martins. It has been my belief that at this point, after they find a site, it then is in THEIR ball park to bring in other martins for a look and decide whether they will STAY.
" Beggin4Birds "
I read your post and wanted to let you know that I agree with everything that you have said regarding your experiences. As you stated,
the " DAWNSONG " can distract an investigating martin as well as attract them. Too loud of music and continually playing it while the martins are checking out a site can definitely cause them to come for a while, BUT eventuallly leave when they hear the music and see NO martins. It has been my belief that at this point, after they find a site, it then is in THEIR ball park to bring in other martins for a look and decide whether they will STAY.
" Beggin4Birds "
You state that you have a variety of gourds, but are any of them 'natural' gourds? For me I have never had much of an issue attracting martins. I started as a kid back in MO and my first year I built a 'wood' single 6 room house and had a single pair that year. Now years later and living in KY, I started my colony in 2009 with the S&K plastic Best Martin House and a couple plastic gourds. I had some lookers for weeks but non stayed. Then I modified the house from the outdated and no longer recommended 6x6 to 6x12. I also put up 4 'natural' gourds. It didn't take long from that point and I had my first pair. I hung more natural gourds for 2010 and had a few more pairs. In 2011 I had built my colony to 48 cavities with a mix of 'natural' gourds and S&K plastic Bo Gourds and Big Bo Gourds and the single S&K plastic martin house. I had 50% occupancy that year. For this season I added more 'natural' gourds and I can stated that the ASY's that have arrived so far have taken to the naturals over the plastics for the most part, but they do seem to like the plastic gourds I have also. My last count, a few days ago, I had over 20 martins and counting. The SY's are now just arriving in KY so I look forward to more. Hoping for 100% occupancy. I recommend natural gourds mixed in with any plastic gourds and playing the dawnsong.
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
fzelch :
In past years, I did have a few Natural Gourds and offered them at my site. I took care of them, but eventually they really needed to be replaced. I started replacing them with several types of the plastic gourds that I posted in my FIRST posting. At the present time, I do not offer any at my site.
" Beggin4Birds "
In past years, I did have a few Natural Gourds and offered them at my site. I took care of them, but eventually they really needed to be replaced. I started replacing them with several types of the plastic gourds that I posted in my FIRST posting. At the present time, I do not offer any at my site.
" Beggin4Birds "
Keep being patient!
Our first year of trying was 1995 and our first nesting pair was in 2011. Last year we had five nesting pairs and several bachelors. Today another ASY male showed up to make a total of four. That's not bad, considering the nasty weather we have had, eh?
Keep being patient
When you finally get that first nesting pair you will be so happy, these ten years of frustration will not matter.
Our first year of trying was 1995 and our first nesting pair was in 2011. Last year we had five nesting pairs and several bachelors. Today another ASY male showed up to make a total of four. That's not bad, considering the nasty weather we have had, eh?
Keep being patient
When you finally get that first nesting pair you will be so happy, these ten years of frustration will not matter.
PMCA member
2011 - 1 SY pair w/ 2 HY fledged
2012 - 5 breeding pairs
2013 - 14 nesting pairs and several singles
2014 - 8 nesting pairs
2015 - 5 nesting prs w/mostly ASY parents
2011 - 1 SY pair w/ 2 HY fledged
2012 - 5 breeding pairs
2013 - 14 nesting pairs and several singles
2014 - 8 nesting pairs
2015 - 5 nesting prs w/mostly ASY parents
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NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
Bill Hyde :
I WILL definitely keep being patient and will NOT give up !!! As you have so nicely put it . . . . I will be so happy that these 10 LONG years of frustration will no longer matter !!! The best is yet to come !!!
" Beggin4Birds "
I WILL definitely keep being patient and will NOT give up !!! As you have so nicely put it . . . . I will be so happy that these 10 LONG years of frustration will no longer matter !!! The best is yet to come !!!
" Beggin4Birds "