Missouri..fewer subs? And... little band reading musings

John Miller · Wed May 08, 2013 8:35 am

I've seen just one sub adult and wonder if the population will be less this year due to heat lost in 2012. Our martins in Forest Park, St. Louis, mostly fledged their young a few days ahead of the heat last year, but many regional colonies had heavy losses.

One other musing this morning, I just got a band reading, MOA 094 on an ASY male at Forest Park. This guy was banded at the Duncan colony in Missouri in 2011 by Missouri River Bird Observatory (I have data sheet), but not sure of the Duncan location. Waiting to hear from MRBO's Dana Ripper. But this is my first band reading of a cross-country martin.

John M

starling shooter · Wed May 08, 2013 1:56 pm

I checked on a neighbors gourd rack that I installed. 12 unit, full. I found one sparrow nest and removed it and NO dead adults. Not saying some did not die far from the rack but this was encouraging from my seat.

DornCounty · Wed May 08, 2013 2:53 pm

I thought last year was a "banner year" by general board consensus? maybe I am wrong? Wasn't the martinwatch data pretty good too?

John Miller · Wed May 08, 2013 4:02 pm

DC

Probably get myself in trouble, but saw those reports too and did not feel it reflected grown men calling me at the height of the heat wave, crying.

Maybe it does reflect folks who have thriving, well managed colonies and those tended to fill first and fledge just ahead of the heat. I'm not sure. Our colonies at Forest Park, St. Louis fledged most of the bablies just before the heat arrived June 28, but I know many colonies were not as far along. Even if the sub population is down, we may not notice as there may be many each year that are floaters anyway, but will be interesting to observe this month and try to assess. John

Craig Haddox · Wed May 08, 2013 4:49 pm

I have between 35 to 40 pairs of ASY'S and no youngsters here yet. They better hurry filling up fast.

MamaBruff · Wed May 08, 2013 5:00 pm

John, I have regular ASY visitors here at my wannabe colony. Although my neighbor swears to have SYs back, I have yet to see any. Either they are still not here yet due to weather, or like you said, perished in the heat last year. And the ones who have come perhaps have taken spots vacated by the ASYs that died in our extended bouts of cold foul weather this spring..?.... Think I'm gonna re-name my decoys "Hope" and "Patience"...

Thanks for all you do for the PMs!
Mary

DornCounty · Wed May 08, 2013 6:25 pm

really studied my birds tonight.. I have 24-26... saw two for sure subbies. Subbie females are hard.

Dennis D · Wed May 08, 2013 8:17 pm

John I have not seen any subs yet this year. Not at my site or Cahokia. I was there today and just what a thriving colony we have there. Removed one partial sparrow nest. Can't believe how hard those sparrows defend that one gourd with all those martins there. Hopefully the martins will own it soon. All is well there - no eggs yet that I saw.

JL Murray · Wed May 08, 2013 8:27 pm

When i did my evening tuckem in count there were 4 subbie males mixed in with the adults and i also found one subbie male dead in a gourd yesterday i don't know how he died he was in the back of the gourd and had no blood on him or peck marks on his head.

Show-Me-Mike · Wed May 08, 2013 10:21 pm

John,

I've been wondering about the sub-adults as well, even though I had several show up a couple of days ago. My first sub-adult arrived here roughly on time for our area. (May 1 in NW Missouri) Oddly, I've had more females show-up than usual, especially ASY females, not sure why but I'm glad.

I have a feeling that the bulk of sub-adults are holed-up down South due to the abnormally cold weather. Assuming the sub-adult population is NOT down overall as you suggest, we'll have a significant surge of arrivals all at once. Perhaps our Southern landlords will give us a heads-up on the sub-adult advance.

Meanwhile my 48 compartments including gourds are nearly full. If I do have an increase in sub-adult arrivals, they may have to look elsewhere.

Best wishes to all for a successful martin season!

MamaBruff · Wed May 08, 2013 10:31 pm

Mike, I have dibs on those SYs, since you are full!

But let's all hope it's just the weather holding them up! Yeah show me the martins too!
Mary

AidanRois · Thu May 09, 2013 12:41 am

@ Show-Me Mike... It was definitely the weather for some part. It's been rough here as well, (Memphis metro) and this morning I had an out-of-nowhere explosion of SYs show up. I've only a small colony, so take my numbers with care, but I counted 15 on house today at the height of morning social, with only 6 of which being residents. During the day it tapered to 5 that stayed, which I believe are staying the night. If it continues like I saw today, there's a huge flood coming, but you can never be sure.

John Miller · Thu May 09, 2013 9:17 am

well..maybe panicked too soon. Saw three sub males across housing sites in Forest Park, St. Louis, this morning. I think most units are full, so they will have to move on. John M

cchild03 · Thu May 09, 2013 10:33 am

I think I have two SY males here as of yesterday afternoon. We had ridiculous heat and drought last year, but due to the early spring about 75% of my 52 nests fledged before it got really brutal. The remaining nests didn't fare nearly as well, but I think around 50% of those nestlings still made it despite the conditions.

I was one of those landlords who was crying at the height of the heat wave.

In fact, my love for my martins completely ruined my beach vacation over the fourth of July because I knew that while I was down in Florida, I had birds suffering and dying without the benefit of my daily ice packs and misting.

I definitely have room for subbies this year whereas last year I did not. From the heat of summer last year to the cold of spring this year ... "our" birds deserve a break!

John Miller · Fri May 10, 2013 9:23 am

well....saw so many sub adult males this morning in Forest Park, St. Louis, I quit counting. All's well maybe.

John M

John Miller · Fri May 10, 2013 9:23 am

well....saw so many sub adult males this morning in Forest Park, St. Louis, I quit counting. All's well maybe.

John M

april57 · Fri May 10, 2013 9:41 am

yeah send them North please. We still have lots of room!!

JL Murray · Fri May 10, 2013 3:37 pm

I have no vacancies right now ( only have 24 gourds up ) and subbies are just starting to show up in good numbers so fighting is getting bad.

Weird thing is my buddy that lives 5 miles from me has had no martins this year so far and had none last year. He did find a black snake in a gourd three years ago after his martins left.

i am getting one of my old wooden 12 holed houses out of the storage shed and hang 4 more gourds under it so that will create an instant 16 more cavities and hopefully slow down some of the fighting.

I told my wife that it looks like i will just have to add a rack or two more next year. Darn the luck!

starling shooter · Fri May 10, 2013 5:25 pm

Have a subbie male showing big time intereste in a natural gourd under a Trio. Just showed up today.

I decided to put up two with round holes - just yesterday - and he was in one of those. I've got a NB trap that is getting a few starlings.

Fingers crossed!!!!

avesrun · Fri May 10, 2013 5:56 pm

Is anyone aware of articles or studies on/geolacating/banding or otherwise on subadult sy Martin travels?
I'm curious as to how far north from it's birthplace a second year bird will travel. Mainly because I'm a new pespective landlord in Iowa and extremely interested in knowing whether some of the subadults born in these mammoth martin colonies I'm reading about on this forum actually are potential birds I could get up here. I'm sure hoping so. Thanks and I hope to report some day about birds fighting for cavities and a need to expand.
Tim