Questions about feeding starving babies

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I have questions about feeding starving babies. I have a huge bird cage that I could put them in just in case I decide to feed them. I know that the parents teach the babies how to hunt, I have seen them drop a bug or insect in front of them, and seen the baby dive and catch the bug. I have seen the babies follow the mother around. So here is the question: if you feed them when they are starving, and then they are strong enough to fly, how do you teach them to hunt? My concern is that the stronger babies that you release will mix with the older birds, but how do they learn to hunt? Do they starve to death because they do not have any bugs handed to them? Can they escape the hawk attacks?

I have seen recently fledged babies sitting on my poles begging for food with wide open mouths, but the other martins ignore them. Then a couple days later they are on the ground, starving to death. Why did the mother not teach them to hunt, or why are they on the ground?

I have also seen the mother feeding babies on the power lines, they give the babies food. My guess is that they may help feed the babies for 2 or 3 days, I am sure the babies learn to hunt quickly.

I do not have any fixed opinion, just a lot of questions about their survival. Are we just delaying a sure death? Or do they learn to hunt from other birds?

I have seen some babies that fledged that would not leave the gourd area. They would get weaker and weaker, and finally be on the ground. My thoughts were that they did not know how to hunt. Why did the mother not teach them to hunt? How can we avoid such situations.

Sometimes we just don't know what to do. Its human nature to try to help, but can we intervene too much? I think that no matter how hard we try, or what we do, we cannot save all of them.

[chickadee]

Emil, this is a good question. I don't know the answer. But since I like to talk about martins I am going to give my thoughts. I don't think we can save them all. But it sure is nice to try. I thought birds where just born with instinct to hunt. To fly away from hawks and people. When I see a young bird begging for food I figured something happen to its parents. Or just wanting more food. As for finding them on the ground hungry. I have never had this happen. I think your birds are lucky to have you. And whatever the case just don't give up.

[Barry Wallace]

Emil, I have wondered about many of the same questions. I know that at our local wildlife rehab facility they transition them to a flight enclosure where they are taught to grab insects from a volunteer holding them aloft with a tweezers. Once they catch on to that they fill the flight with flying bugs and won't release them until they are catching food on their own. They then release them at an active site, either a colony or roost.

They caution against using a barred bird cage, as it causes feather damage. As far as learning to avoid hawks, I just don't know, that's probably why they release them with other martins. I do think rehab facilities are probably their best shot at survival, long term, who knows.

[Doug Martin - PA]

Emil,

I will reply because you have answered so many questions here the least I can do is share thoughts. Rarely do you ever ask a question.

My experience has been that the parents leave my site for the day with the fledglings. But when there is a large difference in when a clutch fledges, I have noticed a few get left behind. I have never seen them starve to death however.

I do know one thing and that is there are times when there is a shortage of insects to feed young even though the weather "seems" to be acceptable. In this case you should see how fast the parents run food from the feeder to the nestlings. It is like a crazed fire drill. To see the urgency of it... is to believe it.

So maybe these young just aren't getting enough because you got 2 parents and 6-7 young all spread out everywhere to feed. In a colony the size of yours there may be a depletion of food in the imediate site location. Could just be a law of large numbers working against you. There is hardly a bug near my yard at fledging time. I only have 40 pair.

To reply to your other thought. After you feed them and nurse them back to health. You may also need to provide supplemental food on a B&B. Martins are smart however. It won't take them long without a parent to learn to snach up a flying insect. It is their nature to do so. Monkey see...monkey do.

Once a Martin is so weak it can not fly it it takes a lot of rehab to get it going again. They look healthy and flap their wings well but getting up in the air with strenghth is a whole nother story. I have some experience with that.

Those are some of my thoughts.

Doug

[ToyinPA]

Adding to this.....

BOTH martin parents do the feeding & teaching....not just the mother. Course not all make good parents. I've seen lazy ASY males that let the female do all the work. I've seen lazy ASY females.

One year I had a ASY pair. The Male get killed by a hawk while out feeding. They had 4, just hatched, chicks. Being late the only option for a replacement was a SY male. He moved in & took over feeding those chicks as his own & was a great parent.

I have had fledged chicks remain with the parents for several weeks after fledging & parents continue to feed. While others do not. It's strange how some adults & their chicks hang around until most of the colony is ready to leave, while others do not.

If there is a lacking of bugs, which my area has had for the last few years, the adults will feed themselves first then their chicks. It's survival of the fittest. Supplemental feeding can help the parents in feeding not only their chicks, but themselves too. I had a ASY male take crickets across town to feed a chick sitting in a tree.

From my observation the parents continue to feed fledged chicks for about 2 weeks, while teaching them to hunt/catch food. Those that don't make it are usually due to the lack of bugs in your area.

Pesticides, flooding, drought, etc can & is taking a toll on insects. The less there are in your area the less food for the martins, the less fledged chicks. It's the domino effect. If you have a lack of bugs in your area supplemental feeding may help both adults & fledged chicks be strong enough to make it to roost & then migration.

I've even considered trying to hatch dragonflies & release them. I have no idea how to go about doing that.

As for a barred cage....the bars must be close together or they could get their heads thru & get stuck. I have parrots...the bars on my Blue & Gold Macaws cage are 1.25 inches apart. Think how big a Macaws head is compared to a tiny Martin. The bar spacing would need to be 1/2 inch or less for a Martin. If you are considering pre-fledged chicks.... a cardboard box with a lid/holes for air would work better.

I have taken starving chicks in, feed them (read thread on feeding/rehabbing in sticky section) a few days & put them back in the nest. The parents resume feeding. I've feed some 2-3 times a day, but leave them in the nest. All of this was due to a major lack of bugs in my area.

Sadly the more pesticides are used, the more floods/fires/droughts we have the less bugs there will be & the harder it will be for Martins to find food.

Toy in PA

[John Miller]

In late season when I've gotten down to one clutch that I could track closely, I've seen a fledgling at 30 days leap from the porch to chase dad -- probably had already fledged a day before -- and take a moment to dip into an adjacent pond for a drink before continuing on to a high tree. That gave me some indication that even pretty early on, these little guys know what to do. But sometimes a few have something wrong with them and repeatedly jump from the housing and sit on the ground, and those may not be the best candidates for hand feeding, but there's much to know. I did read once of a banded female who had been hand raised returning to a colony location.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

There is one way to feed hungry babies that I like a lot. If they are very poor when you do a nest check, feeding these babies a couple times a day could help fatten them up, then put them back into the box, and let the mother and dad take care of them. This certainly could help a lot with a single parent.

[Louise Chambers]

We provide supplemental food if weather is poor (drought has been hard on the martins in recent years) and let the parents do the feeding.

I think a reminder is in order, since we have so many new forum members - despite all the good intentions, it's not legal to take nestlings out of nests and keep them elsewhere and feed them on your own. Best to provide extra food to the parents, and if there is a problem that doesn't help, sometimes we have to accept that not all young will survive.