starling breached my conley 2 entrance

[Art J]

For the first time I have had a starling get into my troyer gourds with the conley 2 entrance. When I put the trap on it he moves on to a different gourd and starts building in it. I'm afraid he has already chased away a couple a pairs of martins...and it is so cold and windy here and I don't know what to do.

[KathyF]

Trap, shoot, and raise the porches.
Try the Lewis Modification (search the forum for more threads on this, but here's one example)

http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic ... 40&start=0

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

Art,
The other major topic about the Lewis SREH (or Lewis modification of Conley II entrances) is:

http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewt ... lewis+sreh

I highly recommend this modification.
The main objection to the modification is that the Troyer-Haskell tunnel trap cannot be used with the Lewis mod in place.
However, if you read Lewis' first post in that topic, he very clearly states that the outer PMCA Wing Entrapment Protector can be removed and the trap will work fine.
Obviously, if someone attaches the outer wing guard permanently with glue, then the wing guard cannot be removed.
If you study his picture, you can see that he attaches his outer wing guards with screws.
The porch elevator does not have to be removed to use the Troyer-Haskell trap on Troyer tunnels.
Of course if you are using the Conley II plates, then the trap may not work in that situation.
Mark.

[Art J]

Thanks Kathy and Mark....I will work on the changes...the problem is I work the next 2 days so hopefully he will not do any more damage until I can get them fixed.
Art

[chickadee]

And to think I let a starling go today. He got in my Blaine's trap. I can not keep them out of it. They go after the suet I have in it. I just get tired of waiting for hubby to get home to kill them. Scared they will kill my decoy sparrows. I hope they never breech my gourds. Maybe I should keep killing them.

[James Rieman]

The Lewis modification of the Conley II entrances has been very successful for me. I went from DOZENS of starlings entering my T-14 last year to just a single bird this year. I am a huge fan of this entrance as the martins use it without any problem and it is a cheap easy fix. I use plastic yard sign shims to raise the entrance. It is the only entrance I will use from now on!

[taxidermy lady]

yes I have a question, next yr. I want to get a gourd rack and a house. I like the troyer vertical gourds they have the tunnels already on them. Does the porch have to be modified? I hope not looks like on the picture of them it is slightly offset. Thanks and good luck! So the Conley 2 entrance is not sreh???

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

Sharon,
Yes. The Troyer Vertical Gourd Conley II Entrance with Wing Entrapment Guard will need the 1/8" porch elevators.
It is the first step in installing the Lewis SREH. This porch elevator with smooth surface eliminates the traction ribs on the porches. It reduces the traction for the starlings. It also raises the porch to almost flush with the bottom edge of the Conley II's flat edge. This near flush elevation throws the starling's longer legs from underneath them. Since that amount of elevation cuts off some of the dip in the Conley II, then a trough must be cut into the porch elevator. That original dip is critical because it is necessary to maintain the 1 3/16" overall height of the original Conley II entrance. That trough along with the dip forces the starlings to "line up" straight into the entrance. Reducing the starling's chance to turn sideways reduces the chance that they can enter.
Hugh Richards posted a video which demonstrates a starling entering a crescent entrance. That video shows a starling using that porch's rough wood surface to gain traction to push through. http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewt ... h+richards

Some people only put on the porch elevator. That addition alone may slow down some starlings but starlings can still enter by turning sideways. The PMCA Wing Entrapment Guard is installed to reduce the two upper "shoulders" of the Conley II entrance.
There is more than enough room for the purple martins to enter.

By the way, I cannot take any credit for these brilliant explanations why the Lewis Modification works so well. All of these plausible reasons are from Mr. Lewis. I have been honored to learn from the master himself.
Lewis, thank you for teaching me so much.
Respectfully,
Mark.

[jr 2]

taxidermy lady;;;you might look into going with the bo11p gourds with tunnels with wing entrapment and cresent or clinger entrance;;the porches on theses do not have too be raised as I have had no problem with starlings getting in;;I have put theses tunnels on the sides of my houses too for wing entrapment purposes as my colony seems too keep growing and the martins really like them;;jr2

[taxidermy lady]

Ok thanks. Mark and J .R. Good luck with all your martins

[chickadee]

jr2 is right. I have some of all gourds and the bo11 are my favorite along with the martins.

[Lewis]

Necessity is the mother of invention. I came up with this method after having starlings breech crescent entrances on my Safe Haven house. I had trapped starlings in my THG's and I knew starlings could enter the Conley II so I came up with this fix ,(Lewis SREH) and tried it on 4 THG's last year and the martins had no trouble getting in and out quickly. This year I have it on all 24 of my THG's which I think is the best martin gourd because the long deep chamber makes it owl and hawk resistant.
I like the looks of the traditional vertical gourds but I believe the horizonal gourd is safer especially when they do not swing.

Lewis

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

James,
You mentioned that you still had a single starling enter your Lewis Modification of Conley II this year.
In your picture, I noticed that you used coroplast to raise your porch levels on your T-14. You and I like coroplast because of its availability and cost.
If you continue to have starlings breach your entrances, have you considered raising the porch level even further?
Lewis used HDPE material from a cutting board to raise his porch levels to almost flush to the bottom his crescent entrances on his Safe Haven.
A picture is in the first post of this topic. http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewt ... lewis+sreh
In your situation, is a double thickness of coroplast too much? The thickness to raise your porch level that high would also require the "trough" to accommodate the dip in the Conley II entrance. I am not quite sure how you can make a trough with coroplast.

With as many people dealing with starling breaches through the Conley II entrance, is it time to modernize the Conley II entrance?
Mark.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I used coriplast on some, if it was still too low, I just put more caulk under it to raise it to the desired level. I did not double up on it

[James Rieman]

Hi Mark,
Good question! I think there is no foolproof SREH and I expect a determined small starling can get into any. I had a starling get into a cavity with an excluder II entrance that had a T-14 insert trap in the cavity (the edge of the opening of the insert trap restricts the SREH size even further). I was floored that a starling could get into that tiny opening. I was using the insert traps to trap house sparrows off season (January) and was really surprised to see a starling in there! It seems to be the consensus of the long tome landlords here that you will get the occasional starling breach (breech?) with any entrance. My site is especially prone to starlings for several reasons. First, I am in a large city with lots of Starlings. Second, the T-14 is a Starling magnet! They love that big wooden house with the deep cavities. I have 4 Troyer horizontal gourds beneath it with unmodified Conley II entrances and the Starlings never give them a second look. They want in the T-14. Third, animals in southern latitudes tend to be smaller than their northern cousins. Landlords in the deep south, especially Texas seem to have more trouble with Starlings than northern landlords. The Conley II is a great entrance that seems to work for many landlords. Not at my site though, and I am using the commercially available T-14 purchased from PMCA with the standard Conley II entrances that many people have no Starling problems with. As I said in an earlier post, last year I was brutalized by Starlings. I would have pair after pair set up nests, as soon as I would trap one pair a new pair would move in - very frustrating! Perhaps the unusually dry weather Texas seems to be having in the past few years has resulted in especially runty starlings. After a particularly vicious pair of Starlings terrorized my martins last year I switched to excluder II entrances and hated them. The martins struggled with them too much, especially with nesting material and large prey and around egg laying time. Some seemed to do well but some never seemed to get the hang of those excluder II entrances. After switching to 1/2 Lewis SREH and 1/2 excluder II entrances I found the Lewis SREH seemed easier for the martins to navigate yet was equally effective in excluding Starlings. I then switched to all Lewis SREH.

Since my site has such heavy Starling pressure, I am not surprised that I had 1 Starling defeat the Lewis SREH. I have watched many many Starlings every day try to get into these entrances and not get in. The 1 starling that did had a LOT of trouble getting in and even more getting out. He was very easy to trap too. I removed the entrance plate and put in an insert trap and he went in almost immediately. No Starling problem and this is peak Starling nestin season around here. So I really have no plans to add another shim because I am so happy with the performance of the entrance as I have it set up now. If I add another shim some of Conley II plate have the dip obstructed and I am not interested in making the entrances harder for the martins when they are performing so well nor nor do I want to have to gouge out a section of the shim which may give the Starlings more traction. So, in short, I like the entrances with the single Corroplast shim because I can typically trap Starlings quickly at my site due to all the practice I got last year and can live with a single Starling intruder over a three month period when they are at their worst! I don't think it is realistic not to have any Starling breeches at my site but I am thrilled with the improvements in Starling security since switching to these entrances.

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

James,
I know why you are confused by breach vs. breech. I had to look it up myself. The starlings are breaching our entrances. You may have to deal with a breech delivery. I completely understand. If you read some of my past posts, I have made the same mistake many times.
I really appreciate the explanation about your situation. I remember seeing thousands of starlings when I lived 4 years in Houston, TX.
The reference to the THGs is helpful to me. Another Forum member has told me that Missouri starlings do not bother her THGs with Conley IIs. Unfortunately my sister in Seguin, TX is having problems with starlings breaching her THGs with Conley II entrances. Her problems will be fixed by Monday.
Your size explanation of southern vs. northern starlings holds up.
My questions were to learn from you and your circumstance.
Thank you for the explanations.
Mark.
PM sent to you.

[Matt F.]

It's amazing how much more effective these entrances are, by applying the "Lewis" mod of placing the PMCA entrapment guard over the existing Conley II.
One might thing the extra "shoulder" area is trivial, in keeping starlings out, and the mod's effectiveness comes from increasing the thickness of the entrance alone.
I think it's both.
One thing that always caused me to put more stock into the shoulder area reduction, is the comparison of obround and crescent entrances, and their effectives at keeping starlings out.
Both entrances are very similar, except for the obround has more shoulder area - and we know the crescents are far far more effective at stopping starlings, than are the obrounds.
Someone had posted a photo of some old, obround Trio doors, sometime back.
I took a photo of a Trio crescent door of the exact same scale, and overlaid the two.
The result gave a visual of these shoulder areas, and how eliminating those alone, greatly increases the entrance's starling stopping power.
Here is that photo overlay:

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

For years, every imaginable shape was tried, they even suggested that the entrance should be thin so the martins could enter easily. Nothing seemed to work practically all of the time.

The Conley 2 entrances were wider, this made it easier for the starling to enter sideways.

Now as soon as the thickness is increased, it seems to work on any entrance. This tells me that the thickness and width are both important but the shape does not have much effect. As soon as wing entrapment was started (which is a thickness increase) less starlings could enter. Thats my opinion, and I use rectangular entrance shape, they work just as good as any other shape if the thickness and width are controlled.

[MamaBruff]

Matt, your pic makes me think that some smart person with the right tooling could make a plate to attach to the front of the Conley II!! That way the starlings could be kept out, and we could still use the highly effective Haskell-Troyer Tunnel Trap for the ever present HOSP pressure. I have the porch elevations in place on my THGs, but hesitate to install the WEPs because the Haskell-Troyer Tunnel Trap is impossible to use with the WEPs. In my location, the HOSP are more of a problem than the occasional skinny starling...

However... I am wondering if the smaller starling is an evolutionary change; with time, it could become the new "norm" for the species. Though it seems to be a widespread problem in the South, it only stands to reason that the trend will continue into the North. Many of us, including Art and myself, have had starlings get into places they were SUPPOSED to be excluded from.

"Oh my, I'm not going to think about that today, I shall think about it tomorrow. For tomorrow is another day."

[Lewis]

Mary,

If you will look at Mark's first reply to this post you will see the link to the photo that shows how I attached the PMCA wing guard over the Conley II with the SS screws that come with the wing guard. I use a counter sink drill bit to pre-drill the holes in the wing guard. Mark the face of troyer gourd so you know exactly where to place the wing guard over the Conley II entrance and then drill thru the same holes into the face plate on the gourd. Use a drill bit that is smaller than the screws. Place the screws in the pre-drilled holes and tighten with phillips screwdriver. If you get sparrows you simply remove the screws and take the wing guard off and you can use the Haskel-Troyer Tunnel Trap. I think this is one if not the most inportant feature of my modification. The Lewis SREH allows you to use the trap. The only other way to make the ConleyII more starling resistant is to place an Excluder II plate over the Conley II but to do this you have to enlarge the Conley II, once you do this you can no longer use the trap. If you do not like the Excluder II you could try another sreh plate or replace the tunnel.

I think Mark's second reply has a link to Hugh's video of a starling breaching the crescent entrance in his wooden martin house. He placed what looks like a 5/8" cedar board with a crescent entrance over the original crescent entrance and as you can see in the video the starling can not get back into the house. Also notice the porch is level to the original entrance and this did not stop the starling. The thickness of the second board is what stopped the starling. I am assuming Hugh cut the crescent entrances to 1 and 3/16".

I think both the thickness and making the entrance smaller makes a difference. The small starlings and sparrows may get in but then remove the wing guard and trap them.

Lewis