Trio raised porches

[avesrun]

I've finished modifying 3 trio houses to expanded cavities. I've added raised porches to one of the 3. A few questions:
1. Would you say raised porches makes it a little more difficult for martins to enter than without (I'm using crescent doors).
2. I have moderate starling pressure that comes and goes in isolated waves; should I wait to add raised porches to the other 2 trios to see if starlings breech the crescent doors more than seldom? (Considering this especially if raised porches presents more difficulty for martins).
3. I've read that starlings "seldom" nest in aluminum houses; how true or reliable is that statement?

I have my remaining porches all ready for installation either way. Thanks for any thoughts.
Tim

[Larry A Kronemeyer]

I only expanded the rooms on my trio as the porches were fine. With the crescent openings, they were the right height to keep out starlings. Sparrows were a different problem. About ten yrs. later I changed trios to a T-14 and a Trendsetter all with crescents.

[avesrun]

Thanks Larry. I may hold off if I hear many similar responses. I didn't mention in post that I also have a 4th trio (mini castle) with raised porches. I've heard our starlings tend to be fatter than some of the more southern regions (but I think our humans are much better looking! ).
Tim

[daveh]

Tim, since switching over to crescents and excluders on thecastle and minicastle years ago, I've had no problems with starlings. I haven't raised the porches either.

dave

[John Miller]

Tim

Where I have put raised porches on Trio doors, the martins used them just fine. My experience is limited to a few Trio houses with crescents, but I'd always get one or two starling pairs nesting per season without raised porches -- that's too many for some folks, and was too many for me at public sites where we cannot monitor daily.

Starlings will nest in aluminum housing. They by far favor deeper compartments , but will on occasion nest in the 6 x 6 inch units. Now I've seen housing with 6 x 6 inch units not bothered at all, and I've seen them hosting a starling pair or two -- so I say "on occasion."

John

[jr 2]

I put raised porches on all 4 of my trio and 3 s$k barns with cresent after I expanded compartments;;;cresent openings on my trio m12k are 1/2 inch above floor which allows starlings in;;;I would advise too put raised porckes on all of your houses;;I have seen no problem with martin entry with raised porches; i have put my raised porches even or 1/8 inch below bottom of cresents;;;jr2

[DornCounty]

I've finished modifying 3 trio houses to expanded cavities. I've added raised porches to one of the 3. A few questions:
1. Would you say raised porches makes it a little more difficult for martins to enter than without (I'm using crescent doors).
2. I have moderate starling pressure that comes and goes in isolated waves; should I wait to add raised porches to the other 2 trios to see if starlings breech the crescent doors more than seldom? (Considering this especially if raised porches presents more difficulty for martins).
3. I've read that starlings "seldom" nest in aluminum houses; how true or reliable is that statement?

I have my remaining porches all ready for installation either way. Thanks for any thoughts.
Tim

1. Yes it does make it more difficult.
2. I would not wait.
3. Myth.. starlings love aluminum houses

[Matt F.]

3. I've read that starlings "seldom" nest in aluminum houses; how true or reliable is that statement?

Not a myth.
I'd like to add my 2 cents on this.
Aluminum houses, with small 6"X6" compartments, and shiny interiors, are only going to even considered by starlings, in HEAVY, starling-pressure areas, like an in-town setting which Dorn manages.
Starlings like larger, and darker compartments.
The reason the shiny, aluminum 6"X6" compartments are very rarely used by starlings, is because:
1. The compartment is too small (nesting area is too close to the entrance)
2. The compartment is too bright (light coming in being reflected by the shiny aluminum surfaces)
Take any one of those two factors away, and the compartment becomes much more attractive to starlings. For example, wooden houses with 6"X6" compartments, are often readily used by starlings. Why? The darker wooden cavities, with no reflective surfaces.
Another example - take a bright, aluminum, 6"X6" compartment, and expand it to 6"x12". You then have created a much darker "back section", that starlings like.
Take away both factors (wooden houses with large compartments), and you have a house that is EXTREMELY attractive starlings.

[DornCounty]

3. I've read that starlings "seldom" nest in aluminum houses; how true or reliable is that statement?

Not a myth.
I'd like to add my 2 cents on this.
Aluminum houses, with small 6"X6" compartments, and shiny interiors, are only going to even considered by starlings, in HEAVY, starling-pressure areas, like an in-town setting which Dorn manages.
Starlings like larger, and darker compartments.
The reason the shiny, aluminum 6"X6" compartments are very rarely used by starlings, is because:
1. The compartment is too small (nesting area is too close to the entrance)
2. The compartment is too bright (light coming in being reflected by the shiny aluminum surfaces)
Take any one of those two factors away, and the compartment becomes much more attractive to starlings. For example, wooden houses with 6"X6" compartments, are often readily used by starlings. Why? The darker wooden cavities, with no reflective surfaces.
Another example - take a bright, aluminum, 6"X6" compartment, and expand it to 6"x12". You then have created a much darker "back section", that starlings like.
Take away both factors (wooden houses with large compartments), and you have a house that is EXTREMELY attractive starlings.

I'll respectfully disagree. Seen them nesting in AL houses in all settings. Rural to town.. new houses to old. Unless SEK has extreme starling populations, which I don't know. 80% of all housing standing in this area is Trio.

[avesrun]

I very much appreciate everyone's input thus far on this topic. As many of you know, it can be quite time consuming adding the raised porches to trios. I've ordered the the alum. ones from PMCA and each one needed cut on both ends for length/ht., holes drilled, riveted onto trio doors etc. I did this on all entrances last season for a TM-12 and of late to a M-12K. I've been mounting them 1/8in. below bottom of crescent. I have all the porches ready for install on a TG-8 and a TG-12. One great thing about enlargement is that it reduces porch work in half!

For the last two units, I think what I'll do is leave half of the entrances alone with crescent doors and no porches just for _____ and giggles to see exactly how many get breached, if any, (and how often) by starlings. If happens to large degrees, I will have the porches ready except for mounting to doors which shouldn't be a big deal. It seems the first starling pressure wave occurs fairly well before scouts arrive and I plan to have the houses up early with some round holes for trapping, and I should be able to gauge starling breaches to the porchless crescent doors early on.

It sounds like the raised porches do indeed make things a little tougher for martins too so I definitely want to leave some crescent doors without porches to hopefully help me get started.

Finally, too many have advised me to avoid Excluder doors when getting started so thus far I don't have any excluder trio doors. I may end up offering one or two anyway for more variety. Keep in mind I have very few martin houses within a 15 mile radius of my home, and what few I have observed I've yet to see a house with any kind of SREH in use (except my fellow wannabe PhlDave on the other side of town who will also be in his third year trying. My one great hope is that at least I've been getting decent number of visitors each year and believe my site is good.

Thanks again all,
Tim

[DornCounty]

Finally, too many have advised me to avoid Excluder doors when getting started so thus far I don't have any excluder trio doors. I may end up offering one or two anyway for more variety. Keep in mind I have very few martin houses within a 15 mile radius of my home, and what few I have observed I've yet to see a house with any kind of SREH in use (except my fellow wannabe PhlDave on the other side of town who will also be in his third year trying. My one great hope is that at least I've been getting decent number of visitors each year and believe my site is good.

Thanks again all,
Tim

I started the bulk of my personal colony and a couple of the public colony sections on excluders. Once you have a pair or two in residence I wouldn't worry.

[avesrun]

Dorn maybe I'm getting too hung up on thoughts that subadults(and adult pms) possibly prefering entrances they're used to using, and that research shows the majority of martins return to nest within 15-20 miles or less from their "home" colony. Maybe previous entrance experience not that big of a factor and mostly comes down to location, site quality, and getting that first pair that's looking for a new site coupled with a strong instinct/desire to nest.

Hopefully what I'm doing isn't "sreh overload"! This spring I'll be offering some trio crescent doors with&without raised porches, Troyer conley II and Ultimate tunnels, and now maybe a few trio Excluder doors.
Nearly everything except ROUND at this point.

If I were a rich man, I'd spend the $$ and come up with a patented martin house with doors that could be remotely controlled with a garage door opener or similar type device that could switch back and forth between round holes and an sreh type entrance made especially for wannabe landlords. If I had such a pm house, while I was at home, I could manually switch to sreh everytime I observed a starling land on the setup; and it could also serve as a trapping device as well depending on how fast acting it would be. When gone from home leave the house in full sreh mode. Maybe the remote control could actually be numbered for each entrance to be controlled separately. Ok I'll stop now. But remember, it was my idea and if anyone goes to town with it they have to call me first!
Tim

[freefallr]

Dorn maybe I'm getting too hung up on thoughts that subadults(and adult pms) possibly prefering entrances they're used to using, and that research shows the majority of martins return to nest within 15-20 miles or less from their "home" colony. Maybe previous entrance experience not that big of a factor and mostly comes down to location, site quality, and getting that first pair that's looking for a new site coupled with a strong instinct/desire to nest.

Hopefully what I'm doing isn't "sreh overload"! This spring I'll be offering some trio crescent doors with&without raised porches, Troyer conley II and Ultimate tunnels, and now maybe a few trio Excluder doors.
Nearly everything except ROUND at this point.

If I were a rich man, I'd spend the $$ and come up with a patented martin house with doors that could be remotely controlled with a garage door opener or similar type device that could switch back and forth between round holes and an sreh type entrance made especially for wannabe landlords. If I had such a pm house, while I was at home, I could manually switch to sreh everytime I observed a starling land on the setup; and it could also serve as a trapping device as well depending on how fast acting it would be. When gone from home leave the house in full sreh mode. Maybe the remote control could actually be numbered for each entrance to be controlled separately. Ok I'll stop now. But remember, it was my idea and if anyone goes to town with it they have to call me first!
Tim

Remote controls? Multiple entry types? Your heart is in the right place, but with all due respect you're over-thinking the situation. Here's my experience and an actual study (published by PMCA) on the matter:

I have a trio house and found the starlings able to breach the crescents at will. Several members advised me to "raise the porch", but that's highly impractical for this kind of house... without serious modification you'll have to remove the porch inserts every time you do a nest check.

The solution for me was doing a quick change to Snyder excluders. I have not had one single starling able to enter, and it's a myth that the martins sometimes eschew these entrances and move on to other housing. A few birds seem to look puzzled at first (this could well be my imagination), but the nesting instinct is very strong and they are zipping in and out withing hours. Don't take my word for it... read this study:

http://www.purplemartin.org/update/10%281%29snyder.html

[avesrun]

Freefallr your point taken and appreciated. I will throw some excluders on my Trios. One of the videos on the PMCA youtube link shows a guy doing nest changes on a trio that has excluders. He has made all his excluder doors adjustable and says: "I'm not a big fan of Excluder doors the way their sold, and I highly recommend that if you use them you make them adjustable". He actually enlarges the opening slightly and then puts a shutter of sorts over the opening that can be raised and lowered. To me this is just as much work as adding porches to trio crescents. Also, porch modification can be done to trio crescents whereby you do NOT have to take the porch off to open and close the door for nest checks. But you're correct the modification practicality and requires "serious modification". Thanks for your input.

My T-14 has mostly conley II tunnels and a few clinger tunnels. My trios have currently all crescents with about half of the openings porched. I'm going to add some excluder doors.
I hope to be able to report back on which of the openings were chosen by martins for this upcoming season by founding pair(s)!!

[DornCounty]

trio crescent porch additions are a piece of cake..



That said I would still go with excluders to not have to put porches on.

[avesrun]

Please allow me to belabor the topic once again with another question:
For trio excluder doors, do you recommend traction tape placed on the floor outside of the door? Or can martins get enough traction on the smooth aluminum surface to go in the excluder door without traction aid. Thanks.
Tim

[DornCounty]

Please allow me to belabor the topic once again with another question:
For trio excluder doors, do you recommend traction tape placed on the floor outside of the door? Or can martins get enough traction on the smooth aluminum surface to go in the excluder door without traction aid. Thanks.
Tim

traction tape will help.. they do slip at times trying to go in. Sure won't hurt other than the mess when it finally comes off in a few years. I put some traction tap on the newer houses on the inside to help them get out. Outside is probably more beneficial but I figured that it would need replaced too often and I have 40+ houses to look after.

[freefallr]

Please allow me to belabor the topic once again with another question:
For trio excluder doors, do you recommend traction tape placed on the floor outside of the door? Or can martins get enough traction on the smooth aluminum surface to go in the excluder door without traction aid. Thanks.
Tim

Avesrun, that is actually a very good question and an oversight on my part for not mentioning it. I did add some grit tape in front of each entrance... it's available at any hardware story. Not sure if it made any difference, but I was initially nervous about changing to more restrictive entrances and it made me feel better if nothing else.

The other thing about changing to excluders is that the fledging martins get used to them from birth. So... when they encounter them next year at my house or any other... not a problem.

[Fireflyfisherman]

Do y'all believe that flashing would work for the porch and dividers (with some grip tape for traction)? I am new to the Martin community so forgive my ignorance but I was given a house and enjoy "fixing it up" with the DIY projects.

[DornCounty]

Do y'all believe that flashing would work for the porch and dividers (with some grip tape for traction)? I am new to the Martin community so forgive my ignorance but I was given a house and enjoy "fixing it up" with the DIY projects.

If it's rigid enough it would... too thin and it will flex under the martin's weight. Most hardware stores sell Aluminum by the foot and you can buy varying thicknesses.