Really bad news!!!

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

Okie,
There are many ways to utilize the DriNest subfloors. I use them regularly. I put the 1/4" foam board under the aluminum Dri-Nest subfloors.
A picture is attached to show how I put the insulation under the aluminum subfloors.
That picture also shows the DriNest subfloor with the 1/4" foam board insulation under it and against the crescent entrance. If the front lip of the DriNest subfloor is bent down straight, then the subfloor does not block the bottom edge of the crescent entrance. The bent down lip is only for the entry compartment. I don't change the upturned lip on the subfloors that are in the nesting compartments.

I know that some people put the cork or foam board insulation on top of the subfloor but I don't. No real problem with wet nests. I really comes down to what you want to try.
From a practical standpoint you will have to use the 1/8" cork. The 50' of 1/4" foam board is too much. I take care of enough Trio houses that it is okay for me. But the number of house I manage do not even compare to Andrew (Dorn County).
Mark.

[Kyler]

Anthony,
Thanks so much!! I'm trying to get all these ideas so is kind of what doesn't happen anymore! We are doing a nest check tonight! So hopully the results are different and everything is well!! The parents are still feeding like crazy so I think there are still babies alive!!!!!! Goodluck with the rest of the year!!!

Kyler,

[Kyler]

Mark,
Are those antiwing entrapment pieces the ones of the PMCA or did you make those? Great picture I understand that now!! Thanks!

Kyler,

[Okie]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for being so patient with us.

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

Kyler,
I remember that this topic started because of the loss of your martin chicks and how they might have been lost. I postulated the possible loss might have been due to excessive heat and tried to give recommendations to reduce effects of summer heat. Fellow Forum members made excellent recommendations too.
From your earlier topic, you were interested in decreasing loss of eggs/small chicks due to due to cold snaps AND how to decrease losses due to excessive heat. The discussion may have become divergent because of the urgency of your situation but I feel that your original question was valid.
Many Forum members may want to focus on one problem or the other due to their particular concerns but I am interested in concurrently solving both problems. It may not be possible to accomplish both without compromising the other. It will definitely be more expensive and time consuming than some people will accept.
You may not have the time or resources to work at both problems simultaneously but I want to try. It has taken me several years of learning from other Forum members and decades of experience in other field of study to formulate my ideas. I hope that I am not boring or upsetting people with my discussions.
I do not have the time, land, financial resources, or interest in a super colony. I prefer to help other people establish their colonies. In the process, I hope to teach new landlords how to care for their own colonies.
But my personal goal is to develop a house which is both resistant to extreme cold and extreme heat. You may chose to use only parts of my recommendations and I understand.

To your first question, if you make nest trays, then do you have to insulate the walls of a house? No, that is your choice.

To your second question, will corrugated plastic make a good insulator inside a house? Maybe but probably not. It will not have the R value that polystyrene or polyisocyanurate insulating sheathing will.
Thermal insulation is a VERY complicated topic. I remember a good discussion on this Forum about the properties of thermal insulation. It was very interesting and that Thermodynamics Engineer just touched upon the myriad of factors to consider. I wish I could find the link for you but I was unsuccessful.
I prefer to think of corrugated plastic as a good medium to absorb and reflect heat off of the surface of the house. A space between the corrugated plastic and the house is ideal but not necessary since the corrugations themselves allow heat to dissipate.

To your last question, those are PMCA Wing Entrapment Protectors. They may be listed as experimental but they are too useful to consider them experimental any more. Thanks PMCA for providing a great product.

Bottom line, do what you can and try it out. It is your colony. I believe that you will learn from your experiences and improve. Your efforts exceed what the uninformed general public does.
Mark.

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

I have decided to insulate the inside of the nesting compartment door. First I had to make a flat inside surface so that the 1/4" polystyrene door will lay flat and can be glued with Liquid Nails Panel & Foam #609 Adhesive against the inside of the Trio door.
First picture is the inside of the door. Second picture is the outside of door.
I open the nesting compartment door to conduct nest checks. I like a bolt to grab and open the door. The stainless steel 6-32 x 3/4" machine bolt is held by two stainless steel 6-32 nuts - one inside and one outside.
Mark.

[Kyler]

Well now I have a little bit of good news!
We did a nest check tonight! Three out of the five nests have babies now and the other two have 5 eggs a piece! That should be hatching in the next couple days!! So happy so far!!

This first picture is the 2 out of the 5 young that survived the heat so far! There have grown a lot from last nest check!!!!!



This picture is the nest that had the 4 babies that just hatched in the last nest check picture! They have all made it so far also!!!!! The picture is on page 1 of this thread! Of when these babies hatched!



This nest hatched last night! 4 out of 5 eggs hatched so far! Sorry the picture isn't that good!!!!!



Mark,
Thanks for all the suggestions you have gave me!! I will be doing all of the stuff that you said and hopefully have a great year next year!!!!! Have a great rest of the year!!!

Kyler

[Okie]

Kyler the 1st pic looks like it has an egg behind the chicks. Those chicks are too far along to still have an unhatched egg. Did you remove it?
Great/Boo Hoo news: Papa did not bring his brood back last night.
It is toooo quiet! Just cheeping of the sparrows looking to take over the house. Geeesh will they ever go away?? Guess I am single handily ridding the neighborhood of sparrows!
I am up to 75 trapped. Putting traps in the house today. And so it goes. Will continue until next spring and beyond if needed.

[Kyler]

Okie,
Yes we did! We removed the egg as well as another in the sencond pic nest! Also it going to suck when they migrate back to South America! It's just so quiet!!!!

[Okie]

Yep Intensely enjoyable while they are here... Just not long enough.

[Kyler]

I have a question hope guys can help me?
I bought a trio mini castle to replace my S&K barn! When I get back home I'm wanting to put the mini castle up so the martins can get use to it! Before they leave for South America! The S&K house is about ten feet away from the two M12Ks I have! The martins land on the house but that is about it! Their are no martin nests or anything in the house! I'm wondering if I could take the S&K house down and put the mini castle up instead? Would that work or would it stress the birds out? I'm not touching the ones that they are nesting in so I think I would be fine! I just wanted to make sure with you guys before I start messing with things! I don't want to use my colony just because I replaced a house!!!! Thanks!!

Kyler,

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

Kyler,
Doing any thing to the unoccupied house will not affect the martins in the houses with established nest especially eggs or nestlings.
I would not change the compass orientation of the houses with established nests.
Mark.

[Foxie]

Sorry you are having issues at the site. The rating of heat gain is called R Factor The higher the R rating the better insulation against heat loss or insulation quality protecting heat loss. U Factor is on heat gain, Windows eg have R and U ratings. If it is insulated heat gain will be retarded.
We placed R 20 foam boards on office roof deck and covered with roof material. The R rating for 1.5 inches R10 eg doubled R20 +- However as you increase inches the R rating increase but not exactly doubled as I understand it. Eg. Sidewalls in our area R11 for 3.5 inches of glass and other have R13 - r15 on 3.5 glass. Ceilings have R40. We built our house and placed R19 6t inches glass and added another R19 to equal 12 inches but were told may not be R 38 Part of the house has 3 laayes of R19 x3 with some reduced factor on R. Some Foam materials vary greatly on R and we would suggest you explore insulating contractor services to find out if they have any good quality scrap with best R rating for you suggested use.
I have found Al Siding where it was removed and the contractor saved it to sell for recycle and in fact gave me some. You can go on line and read up on R factors and or talk to Lumber Supply or Home Supply Depot etc.

[Foxie]

Thinking out of the box etc. our T14 was packed or stacked full of Foam insulation board good R rating. Thinking about using it for floors on nest check box. making a picture frame for sides connection to bottom with thin wood floor over the underneath placed insert of Foam. This would reduce some weight on the box. Also thinking of making a frame for replacement of side boards etc. with foam inserts covered by selected your choice material eg Al on outside fastened to the frame and extra thin material wood on inside or Al material. Thus, Serving two advantages,
lighter and insulating. Just working my mind to come up with a better approach. have to build a stout frame for support to solid base etc.
Any added thoughts on this project is welcomed as it is in the thinking stage right now. Could you quickly fasten some insulation to the outside of the roof pop rivets washers to hold R rated board to roof or sides and roof with Al thin material. you could use adhesive to attach the R board to the new Al and then securfe it over the existing roof quickly with screws or some type of fastening materials. Just a quick thought.
Your PM Listening Friend

BJ
Okay people get the gray matter working to help him! Thanks to all good Landlords etc.

[Kyler]

Mark,
Thanks! I think I will do it! Also I'm not touching the other houses so won't change the orientation! Is that what you were talking about the compass orientation with established nests?

Kyler,

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

Kyler,
It is established knowledge that martins use many factors to identify their nesting compartment. An important factor is compass orientation.
Do not turn a house in a drastic way after the birds have selected their compartment and are nesting.
Some uninformed landlords decide that they want to get a better view of their nesting martins during the nesting season and turn their housing around for the human's convenience. Bad idea.
I have changed the compass orientation by 1-2 degrees by accident but never anything drastic like 90-180 degrees. The martins do not seem to mind a small, gradual change.
Mark.

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

Foxie,
Thank you for your input. Several years ago, someone explained the factors involved in our martin houses and gourds. I cannot find that link and would like to review it. It was VERY useful. The explanation was so detailed that I presumed it was a Thermodynamics Engineer.

After reading your post, I had to study and refresh my memory this morning. I am always excited about learning. I firmly believe in the Roman saying - "Repetition is the Mother of all Learning".

In simple terms, R-value is a measure of thermal resistance for a specific material, K-value is a measure of thermal conductivity of a specific material and U-factor is the overall heat transfer coefficient of a structure (windows in the US).
In an aluminum house, the aluminum has a high K-value which increases heat transfer and the foam board insulation has a high R-value which reduces heat transfer.

I admire your building construction for your office. The office building I lease has no visible insulation in the roof. It will be 97 degrees F today and the AC unit will struggle to keep the office space at 72 degrees F. Makes for an expensive utility bill.
When the AC gives out, the office space becomes unbearable because there are no windows to open for ventilation. Reminds me of what the purple martins must endure in an un-insulated house.
Mark.

[Kyler]

Mark,
I actually put my houses up in a way that we can view them! So I can see all of it from the house and I wouldn't have to turn them or anything! Thanks for the advice!

Foxie,
Thanks for the advice that was very interesting!

Kyler,

[Kyler]

Mark,
Going back to the pictures about the insulating the door! What did you use for the plate that covers the round entrance? I'm wanting to insulate all of the doors that are plugged! I use just the plugs that are included in the trio houses! I'm wondering how could I attache the plug to the door so when I open the door the plug doesn't just come out? Also to add something like a little bolt with a nut so you can grab that to open the door?

Kyler,

[4th Gen Martin Fan]

Foxie,
Couple of years ago, a martin landlord in the Dallas, TX area was moving and had a T14 house for sale that was made of 1" dense polystyrene foam board. His price was exceptional for the materials and work he had put into it. He was very excited by the martins' acceptance and fledging rate.
I wanted to buy it to study his construction techniques. I don't know what ever happened to it but it is most likely long gone by now. Since the house was not sheathed by anything like aluminum it would not have lasted in my area. Woodpeckers and especially squirrels would have turned it into Swiss cheese.
I believe that you are pondering construction technique for a T14 which would incorporate insulation and protective sheathing. Bravo!
I am excited about the polyisocyurate insulating sheathing that has been introduced in this discussion. The thin aluminum which sandwiches the polyiso will last longer.
Mark.