Opinion on site plans/gourd rack options

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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

Hi everyone,

I'm in my 2nd year as a wannabe landlord. Have had lots of visitors but no nesting pairs so far. Martins will land on my house, stay for 30 minutes or so, but I can't seem to get them to start nesting for the life of me. My current setup is a Trendsetter 12 with 4 natural gourds hanging below. This martin house is about 100 feet from my house, but only about 50 feet from two trees that are ~50 feet tall. Cutting down the trees is not an option.

I am wondering if I should move my martin house to a new area on my property that is more open, but further away from my house. This potential new site, shown on the map below, is still within 100 feet of two barns on my property but is probably ~300 feet from my house. There are no tall trees near this site and it has much longer open flyways and is closer to a creek that bisects my property.

Another option could be to keep my current setup, but add a gourd rack on the 2nd potential site. I am thinking of either a Gemini 24 gourd rack or a deluxe 24 gourd rack that is listed on this website. Any opinions on my best option between the two of those? I am in an incredibly windy site so stability is a key concern.

Am I just being too impatient to get my colony going or is my current setup not conducive and my odds would increase substantially from trying the 2nd site? I have tried all the other attraction techniques (dawn song, mud smearing, decoys, etc.) and have been successful in getting martins to visit, but just can't seem to seal the deal and get a nesting pair.

Thanks,
Lee
Property map:
Image
Current martin house:
Image
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Mhoover
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:30 am
Location: Indiana/Monticello - White County
Martin Colony History: Started with 2 pair in 2014 - 7 eggs -7 fledged

What about moving it straight west closer to the creek? How far can you go in that direction?
2017-5 pair
2016-4 pair- 18 hatched-18 fledged
2015-1 pair -Both ASY- 6 eggs-5 fledged
2014-2 pair- 1 ASY-M/SY-F-1 ASY pair - 7 eggs-7 fledged

PMCA Member
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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

I can't move it that much further west, maybe 10-20 feet. And if I go much further than that I'm pushing 120 feet or more from my house. But that thought has crossed my mind. There's a windbreak of green giant arborvitae trees I'm planting that you can see on the map that are growing 3-4 feet a year, and then there are black walnut trees in the creek that the martin house would start to get close to if I moved it more than 10-20 feet west.
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4th Gen Martin Fan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: TN/Collierville
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.

Open flyways are critical for a new site and the new potential site looks much better than your current site. Proximity to a human residence is nice for you but the open flyways is critical to the martins. The trees in the second picture would be worrisome to martins. Flying predators especially hawks in the daytime and owls at night.
I am sure that it will be a lot of trouble but if you moved it this weekend, you could have a nesting pair this season.
That Trendsetter with gourds is too inviting to martins. In an open area, that Trendsetter would be full within 2 years.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

You can't see it in the picture, but to the north of the 2nd potential site is a mile of open farmground. So the open flyways are much much longer in the 2nd site.
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flyin-lowe
Posts: 3789
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Indiana/Henry Co.

The trees are not helping anything but two years is not a long wait, especially this far north. My first colony took 5 years to get started. I had colonies near by, a 900 acre lake across the street and wide open fly ways in all directions. In 2012 I moved to a new location that is open, lake nearby and you can see in my signature I am going on 5 years again.
2026 HOSP 28
2025 62 pair HOSP 20
2024 60 pair, HOSP 44
2023 60+ pair, HOSP 8
2022 60 nests with 262 eggs, HOSP 14
2021 62 pair, HOSP 9
2020 42 nest, HOSP 8
2019- 31 pair
2018- 15 pair 49 fledged
2017 3 SY pair, 12 eggs , fledged 10. 4 additional lone SY's
2016 1 pair fledged 4
2015 Visitors
2014 Visitors
2013 Moved 6 miles, 1 pair fledged 2.
2012 30 pair fledged 100.
2011 12 pair 43 fledged.
2010 5 pair 14 fledged.
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GaryU
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: PA/Transfer
Martin Colony History: 1st year....just visitors.
2nd ......praying!.......prayers answered 5/28/16 with 10 couples and lots of 1st year males. Making improvements and planning for 2017 and beyond.
3rd year.....all compartments on both poles (28 + 18) and planning on 18 more for 2018.
2018 added gourd rack (18 gourds)
4th/5th/6th year ......established colony.
2022 added 2 new poles with polywood T-14’s. Filled up 1st year in use.
2025 adding 3 new poles with polywood T-14’s +12 gourds.
Total: 8 poles, 84 T-14 compartments, 64 gourds. (148 nest cavities)

Hi Lee,

I would move my present pole to the new site that is as far from trees as you can get. Put your new pole next to it separated by 12 to 15 feet. When your colony starts and you want to add a pole put the same distance apart (12-15') so the poles form a triangle. The more white housing that the birds see the more they feel confident and settle in and increase in numbers. Good luck, this is a great avocation/life style. Let me know if I can be of any help. Have a great season.

Good leasing,

Gary



Gary U
N.W. PA, Mercer County, Delaware Twp.
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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

I guess another option could be to move to a new site even further north than the 2nd site i outlined, on the other site of the creek. But then I would be 200+ feet from any building. I assume that is too far? On the upside, this potential 3rd site would have almost no trees anywhere close and would be by far the most open site. On the downside, it would also entail me moving around my bluebird and tree swallows nestboxes which are on a grid on the north side of the creek.
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~Ray~Gingerich
Posts: 2122
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: Delaware/Dover

I would cut the trees and leave it where it is
~Ray~ Gingerich
1999 1pair, 2006 2 pair, 2008 2 pair,
2009 23 pair, 2010 39 pair, 2011 67 pair,
2012 115 pair, 2013 160 pair,
2014 152 pair, 2015 174 pair, 2016 178 pair
2017 187 pair, 2018 200 pair, 2019 171pair
2020 233 pair
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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

Cutting the trees is not an option, would cost me too much relationship equity with my wife! They also help shade the house.
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4th Gen Martin Fan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: TN/Collierville
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.

I am in the same situation, too many trees at my home.
I chose to have my personal colony away from my home so I can keep the trees and have martins at my office location.
The new location in your first picture will work.
Move that beautiful, awesome Trendsetter house!
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
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marcus
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 10:21 pm
Location: Fairland OK
Martin Colony History: Mom n Dad had a plastic 12 unit martin house with some martins as long as I can remember. In 2013 they had 1 pair. I don't think they fledged any. I then started learning how to take care of martins and in 2014 we took that house down and put up a Troyer 18 gourd rack. We had 7 pair with 28 fledged.That summer I built a T-14 (I was only 12). I was also given 4 natural gourds that I hung beneath the T-14. In 2015, we had 23 pair although only 22 pair fledged young. They fledged 88 young. In 2016, we had 36 pair, 210 eggs, 163 hatched, 149 fledge!! One pair fledged 2 broods. In 2017, I had 36 pair with 35 fledging young. They laid 204 eggs, hatched 155, and fledged 152.

Is your front yard an option? :?:
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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

marcus wrote:Is your front yard an option? :?:
Hypothetically yes, but that road just to the south of us has a lot of traffic and power lines, and in the maple trees in our driveway are pretty tall so I don't think the front yard is open enough.
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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

Here is how it looks at the new site... Our main barn is just to my right from where i'm taking the picture and probably ~100 feet from the martin house. Another benefit of this new location is that my dawn song speaker is on the north side of the barn and I can hear it for a good quarter mile north so it is playing over a much wider area than my previous speaker location was. Wish me luck!

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Martinfarmer
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 6:33 pm
Location: Guthrie KY 42234
Martin Colony History: 2015 put up a S-k house, visitors but no takers
2016 homemade Martin condo (40 nesting boxes) several visitors no takers
2017 changed crescent openings to Troyer Conley 2 openings and installed 4 super gourds with Conley2 adapters and 12 vertical Troyers.
Several nests and eggs. Hopefully will exceed one hundred eggs this year.
6-21-17 nest inspection 68 chicks and 26 eggs
6-30-17 inspection 90 chicks and a new nest with 4 eggs.
8-30-17 successfully fledged over 85 martins.

Lonesome Duck, it wouldn't hurt to have a couple different types of entrances. My thinking is that the martins like the opening they are accustom to. But who knows what they think? I'm a firm believer in the Troyer Conley 2 entrance tunnel.
Some of the martins go in so fast that if you don't have your eye on them, they just disappear. A lot of the martins land wiggle their wings out flat and shuffle right in the hole.
Good luck, I'm sure you will have martins before long.
Last edited by Martinfarmer on Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

Hi MartinFarmer,

What's an example of the colony 2 entrance tunnel you are referring to? I have SREH entrances on my martin house then just circle entrances on the natural gourds hanging beneath. Am thinking about maybe going with 2 troyer gourds next year to replace 2 of the 4 natural gourds. Less chances for starlings to try to nest!

Thanks.
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John & Linda - KY
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:19 pm
Location: Kentucky/Hawesville

Your new site looks very good. But one of the joys of being a martin landlord is being able to watch them raise their young. It looks like you have a roofed porch on the front of your house, you would get a lot more enjoyment if you could sit there and watch them. Linda & I spend hours doing just that. -- John
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LonesomeDuck
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Arcadia, IN
Martin Colony History: 2016- Some visitors on my Trendsetter 12, no nesting pairs yet.
2017- More visitors, still no nesting pairs yet.
2018- Added Troyer Horizontal gourds and moved house to more open location. One nesting pair of subadults! 2 eggs, 1 egg hatched.
2019- added Gemini gourd rack. 2 pairs, 10 eggs, 10 hatched.

Yep, the main drawback of the new site is that I can't see it well from my house. I am hopeful that this site will get my colony established, then I can try expanding my colony with additional houses in the future at my original location or a third location in the front yard where I can see them a lot better.
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Martinfarmer
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 6:33 pm
Location: Guthrie KY 42234
Martin Colony History: 2015 put up a S-k house, visitors but no takers
2016 homemade Martin condo (40 nesting boxes) several visitors no takers
2017 changed crescent openings to Troyer Conley 2 openings and installed 4 super gourds with Conley2 adapters and 12 vertical Troyers.
Several nests and eggs. Hopefully will exceed one hundred eggs this year.
6-21-17 nest inspection 68 chicks and 26 eggs
6-30-17 inspection 90 chicks and a new nest with 4 eggs.
8-30-17 successfully fledged over 85 martins.

LonesomeDuck wrote:Hi MartinFarmer,

What's an example of the colony 2 entrance tunnel you are referring to? I have SREH entrances on my martin house then just circle entrances on the natural gourds hanging beneath. Am thinking about maybe going with 2 troyer gourds next year to replace 2 of the 4 natural gourds. Less chances for starlings to try to nest!

Thanks.
They are Troyers I have the vertical gourds and also I putting the same tunnel on my nesting boxes. I had SREH on my Gourds and boxes last year and the martins would not enter them. They would look all the time but wouldn't go in. This year when I switched, they took to them immediately. I still think it's because my neighbors use this type of entrance. The starlings give up right away on the Troyer Conley 2 entrance.
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Last edited by Martinfarmer on Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rodger Drye
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:07 am
Location: NC/Mt. Pleasant
Martin Colony History: Have been hosting and providing a sanactuary for Purple Martins for 30 years.

Hey Lee,
Something that no one has mentioned is what are the small white tombstones you have about every 8 feet and in long rows in the picture with your house & gourds.?? Do you have something planted.?? It's hard without being there to tell exactly what the best alternative would be.
I know you say it's not an option. I kinda sounds like me - for over 20 years I wouldn't cut any trees either.! Oh yeah I had a few Pairs of Martin's.?.? Then about 4 or 5 years ago I got serious. Changed a whole lot of things. Cut down several big trees, started using Predator Guards effectively. Started getting rid of all Snakes, and Sparrows and Starlings, even got rid of the family cat who was a good hunter. All the sacrifices paid off I had 40 Pair last year and this year I have 68 Pair and 74 Nests. It worked for me. It was hard to cut the trees down. But I decided it was the trees or the Martin's. Hey - The Martins Won Out...!!!

If you want Martin's and want them to stay and prosper (multiply) then you gotta do what you gotta do. Unfortunately I didn't have the PMCA Forum or anyone to ask what I was doing wrong 28 years ago.

I got this I-Pad for Christmas about 4 or 5 years ago. I googled Purple Martin and the PMCA came up along with Chuck Abare's Purple Martin Page. I lived Purple Martin's. I educated myself on every aspect about these Birds. And yes I was doing a lot of things wrong, and not doing a lot of things right..!

I've learned so very much, and I know there is still more to learn. It's all a Learning process and I Love every Bit of it.!!
I have to agree with Ray - If you're Serious - Cut the Trees...!!! If you want to keep and start your Colony where it is...
Only you can make that decision. I know it's difficult - It was difficult for me.
Good Luck on what ever you decide.!!
Rodger
P.S. It sure is nice to go out and see 200 or 300 Birds' flying all around your Site!! I'm thinking of taking more trees down this winter.!!
PMCA Member
Have been Hosting and Protecting Martin's for 30 years.
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