To Prenest or not to Prenest

[Thomabear]

I've been seeing prenesting mentioned a lot with landlords preparing for the arrival of their colonies. Also, when searching for information to make an informed decision on whether or not I should be doing this I'm running into opinions both for and against prenesting. Mostly I'm seeing the prenesters citing safety as the main reason for doing this while others say they allow their birds to perform what mother nature intended. I figured I would start a specific thread addressing this topic so everyone can share their reasons for their decision. Based on what I was able to research I'm leaning toward leaving my martins take care of their nest building. If I'm wrong or overthinking this please share that. I'm here to learn and I can't think of a better place to find answers given the combined years of experience on this website. These are a couple of things I'm pondering with prenesting and would like to hear opinions on.

1. By doing prenesting for the martins are we interfering with their instinctive strength and desire of nest building? Do they want us to do this? Should we be doing this?
2. Does allowing our martins to make their own nests as mother nature intended make them more aware and battle hardened as to the dangers they encounter during this stage?
3. Does not interfering with their natural instincts make them more likely to be better parents?
4. Are martins really in danger when gathering their choice of nesting material? Has anyone ever seen a martin being killed while on the ground? My martins seem to have a very keen eye for predators during daylight hours and to my knowledge I haven't lost a single martin that was gathering nest material.

Thanks All!

[brent]

Great topic. Glad you're asking. I prenest. I don't think it's interfering with what's natural. I have had martins use the prenest and some have just about removed it. I take comfort in knowing that, perhaps by prenesting, they have a comfortable place to return to. It gives them a message, I can only hope, that they are welcomed. But, in regards to the concern of the interference with nature and the natural order of things, I understand. I, can only speak for my self, am willing to do for nature what I can to support it. A little pine needle will not hurt. Brent

[C.C.Martins]

Prenest, lots of good reasons to do it. Less so for against it. In my humble opinion sir.
As far as taking away from the natural order of things; aren't we already doing that by giving them homes? Feeding supplemental, supplemental egg shells, list goes on. Do we skew the natural order of things? Probably not, do we protect a species we love? Yep.

[G Saner]

I have pre-nested in the past for two reasons. First to give them something to sit on early in the season during cold weather and second to shorten their nest building days (want them to fledge before it gets hot). The martins responded in many ways. Some removed everything, some added so much you couldn't find the needles and some just added leaves.

Pine trees aren't common in my area, but I found some on property that I could access. Unfortunately, drought followed by the polar vortex of 2021 has ended their life. This year will be no pre-nesting so I will see how that goes. It was a tradition to have breakfast out after gathering the needles. I'm going to miss that.

[jhcox]

I have always pre-nested like others have said just to give them a bit of warmth in the gourds when they first get here. It does give them a Headstart on nesting so they can fledge little bit sooner. Also G. Saner you can get pine needles at most Home Depot and Lowe’s if you can’t find any around in your area for free.

[Dave Reynolds]

.. It seems like I have been seeing this question from time to time. I'm sure the answers you get to that question will very some what. Most of us have learned on our own what works for us and what does not work.. As for me,, I pre-nest all of my housing, I don't put enough material in the nesting area to make a nest, just enough to cover the floor about 1 inch. Most Martins will add their nesting material on top of what I pre-nest with.. The main reason I pre-nest is so the early Martins (here in March) won't be sitting on the cold metal floor of my houses. We have some really cold weather in March.. I also pre-nest my gourds, but again not enough to make a nest. Just enough to cover the floor area..

Dave

[Jones4381]

OCD vs ADD. I associate with the OCD and pre-nest even though I want to not do it. I believe the birds will be fine equally with either choice unless they also lean OCD or ADD.

[Thomabear]

Thanks for the replies. I kind of like the idea of adding only enough nesting material to insulate the floor. Maybe 20% or so of what I would consider a complete nest. In the wild I suspect most natural cavities are somewhat warmer than what we offer. One other thing that concerns me is the next generation of youths coming behind us. I don't see a lot of interest coming from most youths other than keeping their eyes glued to their phones. How many will be around to tend to these birds when we are gone? Call it tough love if you will but part of my logic for allowing my martins to do as much for themselves as possible is to not build un-necessary dependency on humans. I do understand the need to provide housing and health of my colony, but I feel the more they are allowed to do on their own the easier it will be for them to survive when humans loose interest. It kinda reminds me of how domesticated pets evolved to lack the ability to survive without intervention. I think we can agree that those pets that are allowed to roam freely have the ability to survive better than the ones curled up next to a fireplace close to their food and water bowl. Just thought I would throw out a little food for thought. I do tend to be a little bit of an overthinker.

[Whippy]

I like to pre-nest to give them a head start for when they arrive. The idea of sitting a bare plastic floors is not all that appealing to me so I am happy to provide them, what I believe, to be some comfort. Pre-nesting also allows me to add Sevin dust under the materials so that when they arrive we can start eliminating the parasites they have accumulated while away.

I've had pairs keep the pre-nest and add to it. I've had pairs steal pre-nest from other cavities and I've had pairs remove some and throw it on the ground. I've never had a pair remove all of the pre-nest material.

Purple Martins have become dependent on humans over the last 100 years or more that I believe that this is their natural behavior. If you take away our assistance, I believe the species would dwindle to alarming numbers. It's not like we started helping them 20 years ago and interrupted their natural tendencies. Rather, Purple Martins and humans have developed a coexistence of mutual benefit spanning hundreds of years Then, we can move onto the question of, "Should we have interfered with nature and domesticated dogs and cats?" There are many references we can point to in the creation of mutually beneficial relationships between humans and animal species so to ask "what if" in one scenario we should also ask "what if" in another.

In the end, we don't keep Purple Martins in bird cages in our houses for our personal enjoyment rather, we interact with them in nature without any detrimental interference and our enjoyment and our satisfaction comes from enabling a species as friendly as the Purple Martin to thrive.

That's my two cents worth.

Coolwhips

[Thomabear]

Very well said Whippy! You make some excellent points. I'm the first to admit I do sometimes get tunnel visioned. My wife of 38 years uses a different terminology when she says I can be "hard headed". At the end of the day I really enjoy natures place and this landlord adventure has become very fun and rewarding. There's no other way to describe it other than to say I have been bitten by the bug. I just want to make sure I'm doing this right and in the better interest of our colony. The input coming from you and others is really appreciated!

[Whippy]

T-Bear,

Thank you. I really enjoy reading your posts and being a part of them.

I think we are married to the same woman. My wife finally understands that I can't buy just a 6 pack I gotta have a case. I can't buy a 6 room birdhouse, I gotta buy a 16 unit gourd rack and expand on it every year. In 6 years I went from 16 cavities to 46 cavities just to have them. But I do have a 6 room house I got from my neighbor that I parked a T-14 next to.

I would suspect that you get covered in Martins down there. It's great to look forward to doubling up every year and you're in the place to do it.

Hoping you have another great season.

Coolwhips

[RAMSMARTINS]

I think if you prenest, you miss out on one of the joys of being a landlord...watching the martins as they gather nesting material from your roof or raised platform. I provide nesting material in this manner, and even though I have had hawk problems in the past, they seem to know when the coast is clear. I have lost more martins to hawks generally speaking than nest-building specifically.

[daveh]

I pre nest. I have white pines in my yard so it's easy to gather up a large trash bag of needles. I think most of my birds like the needles and add to it. Some don't like and take them out or scoot them to the side and do there own thing. I feel better when birds come in early and it's cold and they have some cover that might keep them alive.

Dave

[deancamp]

First of all, you are not over thinking, it never hurts to question. My reasons for prenesting are as follows in no particular order:
1) I enjoy doing it
2) Warmth for early arrivals
3) When starting my colony it made it look as if there were nesting Martins already there
4) Some sy pairs will add no nesting materials before laying eggs and this gives a little bit of nest

When Martins occupy a prenested cavity the pine needles will get packed to a minimum. Except for a few sy pairs, they do there own nest building anyways. I also put pine needles on an elevated pole because I enjoy watching them gather from it when nest building. I think if you do nothing they will do just fine by themselves.

[Spiderman]

I think if you prenest, you miss out on one of the joys of being a landlord...watching the martins as they gather nesting material from your roof or raised platform. I provide nesting material in this manner, and even though I have had hawk problems in the past, they seem to know when the coast is clear. I have lost more martins to hawks generally speaking than nest-building specifically.

I have always added pine straw to prenest in gourds before the Martins arrive. It seems to me the Coopers Hawk loosely follow the Martins in their migration. When they arrive he/she arrive.

While we are all going to loose some Martins to hawks and owls during their time here, I know that a Martin sitting on the ground preoccupied with picking up nesting material is a victim.