Blowflies again after nest change 2 days ago

[Guest]

I changed the martins nest on Monday. the bottom of the Troyer wooden box nest tray was pulsating with bugs. Had mites, other things, and 40-50 fat blowfly larvae gorged with blood. I changed nest box and nest, and put 1/4 teaspoon of Sevin that is about 15 years old under the nest box tray.
The infestation was so severe, I decided to change the nest again today....only 2 days later. I examined the 3 babies this time, and found their armpits were very red...looked like biten. I changed the nest and gave them a clean nest box again, put a little Sevin under nest box tray, and a very small amount of Sevin in a corner under the pine needles.
Then I looked at the contents of the old nest....it had lots and lots of "moving things"....little rust looking skiny shaped things that looked like skinny flies, other crawly things, and about 40-50 small blowfly larvae.

I couldn't believe all the new small blowfly larvae. There was only one large gorged one, but lots of these little ones that were about one-fifth the size of the large larvae seen 2 days ago.

While I am cutting down on the parasites, I am definitely not eliminating them.

Will change out the nest again tomorrow or the next day.

Looks like we can grow parasites in Wisconsin. I would have expected this more in the hot and humid south. We have had rain the last two days, but temperatures have only been around 75....so not real humid.

Well....babies have less bugs biting them tonight...but still have parasites.

Sharon

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Sharon, I am happy to see that you are trying to take care of the babies.

I read your comments about growing parasites in Wisconsin. We do not have blowflies down here, but it got me to thinking about the blowflies, mites, etc.
Since nest changes is a recent way to control them, I am wondering if this may also contribute to the lack of martins up there in the northern states. Since most people don't do nest checks or use any pesticides on their martins, could it be that the population has decreased because of them? The baby martins jump out due to the blowflies before they are old enough to fly, and thus there is very few of the new babies in the northern states.

That fact, plus the extreme cold weather is probably due to the lack of martins up there..Could be, what do you think?

[Guest]

I don't know how bad blowflies are on martins in Wisconsin. This is my first pair of martins, so I personally don't have the experience to say. I do know one landlord in our area, so I will ask him if the babies fledge early (jump out of nest). I am not sure if he does nest changes, but I don't think so.
I can see why people don't do nest changes though....very yucky....especially if you had gourds and had to pull this stuff out with your hands....yuck. The nest tray are about the only thing that make me feel I can do this. At least I can pull out the tray, take the babies out and put in a clean tray, put tray back, and then throw the old tray in a bucket of water to get clean.

we should have trays for the gourds. then people might be willing to do nest changes.

in terms of the cold here, yes...I think that definetly is a limiting factor. There have been times when my friend had 30 birds one day, and it would snow, and then he would say all the birds were gone. Didn't seem to die in his houses, but they just weren't there. I am sure many many of them die. When you see pictures of martins in driveways and on windowsills trying to stay warm you know they are in trouble.

I don't know if Sevin will kill the blowfly larvae.

sharon

[Guest]

just found a blow fly website.

http://www.birdblowfly.com/

they say that more than 10 blow fly per nestling puts the baby in danger. Doesn't tell me how to get rid of them other than a nest change.

since I had that many blow flies on Monday, did a nest change, and have another 40-50 today....with 3 nestlings....thats not too good.

anyone know how to get rid of them, I am all ears.
sharon

[Guest]

if I changed the nest, then where did these blowflies come from in just two days? everything I am reading says the fly lies the eggs in the nest. But if I put down new nesting material (pine needles collected about 3 years ago, and corn husks just dried in the oven), then how do I have new larvae?
sharon

[Guest]

Sharon, We too are being loaded with blowflies here in East Central MN. Have been making nest changes every 3-4 days, finding larva in every nest-as many as over 200 big ones. They have killed 5 of the nestlings so far, these have been the smaller ones (younger) that would have made it.I've tryed Sevin time & time again with NO luck at all. Chris Slabaugh says there is 2 kinds of blowfly that lay live young & I sure do beleave it.Don't know what else to do but make changes. Good luck. Richard Hjort

[Guest]

Richard.
Sound like we have the same problem. I was thinking overnight that I maybe should have washed the interior of the T-14 between nest changes. Or maybe those new blowflies are coming off the parents and dropping in the nest. I know the fly lays the eggs in the nest, but those little bably blowflies I had two days after the nest change had to come from somewhere.
I am not exactly certain of the age of my martins, so not sure when I have to stop doing nest changes, but I know it is very soon. Will try stuffing the entrance on the next nest change. I think the babies are at least 16 days old now....have white in their feathers that wasn't as noticeable on the first nest change which I think was day 14.
will try at least one more nest change.
I was going to be gone for a week from Sunday on. Wonder if I should go.....how do people ever take care of 200 pairs....this one pair is a lot.
Sharon K

[Laverne]

Sharon - none of the "official websites" are going to tell you to use a pesticide in a bird nest. They can't...

However, I am not official and in my humble opinion I thought: maybe you need to get some fresh Sevin. Then I read this:

Fly eggs hatch within 24-48 hours after they are laid and the tiny larvae must feed immediately. In some species young larvae will crawl into nestlings' ears or nostrils and remain there until they get larger. In most species larvae spend 15-45 minutes feeding on nestlings and then return to the nest.

I'm thinking you may need to mix up some liquid Sevin and treat the nesting material. I would prepare this nesting material before putting it into the T-14. The key would be to get Sevin on all the nesting material, but let it dry before putting it into the nest with the nestlings. Then, when the blowfly larvae crawl through the nesting material - maybe that will kill them.

The ones you are seeing now after the initial nest change were probably on the nestlings (ears and nose) and now they have grown big enough for you to see. They grow fast! Plus, another female adult blowfly may have laid more eggs in the nest since you changed it.

Can you plan to change the nest out every day for the next week before you leave plus use nest material treated with liquid Sevin? This is beginning to sound like a dangerous situation and may require extreme measures of this type to control and save your nestlings.

Again, I must tell you, I have never seen a blowfly - I don't think they live this far south. Maybe some others will jump in here and recommend the way they have dealt with them in the past.

[Guest]

Sharon Whether you should leave or not ,, this weekend depends on how much you value your birds.. With only one pair with babies it is very important that they successfully fledge those babies.. I have no experience with blowflies.. I can assure you that Sevin does kill all mites. and one aplication per year keeps you mite free... I have been told that Sevin applied early in the larvae stage will kill blowflies but not those that are in the pupa or adult stage.. Sevin is a wonderfull product and will not kill or hurt babies that are only babies one day old.. I have treated one day old baby pigeons many times with excellent resullts.. I would use 21 or 22 percent licquid SEVIN and mix at the rate of 4 TABLE SPOONS in a gallon of water.. Spray on babies and wet nesting material and walls of compartment.. Take no chances but change nesting material every second day.. as long as the blowflies are present..

I have had a martin colony for about 60 years.. and in 2004 I had 700 plus nesting pair.. This year I had 667 nesting pair.. YES they are well managed.. Good luck and God Bless Victor

[Guest]

Victor....thanks for info on how to do this.

I had emailed the guy at http://www.birdblowfly.com. He had done a PhD thesis on blow flies. here is what he said

Sharon,
Other than another nest replacement, you could put sevin in the nest proper where the larvae are developing. Just make sure the topmost portion of the nest is pesticide free. Terry

so going off to the store.....not sure why it isn't working for the guy in Minneosta.....will email him to be sure he reads Victors experience.
Sharon K

[Guest]

Thanks for all the great advice & link to Terry Witworths super site. About 10 years ago we did particapate in his request for nests, sent him 8 of a variety, 3 were Martins. He replyed right away, was very interesting. We also had a toad infestation a few years ago that was killing them by eating all the mussel tissue until it dies... so I don't beleave that statement all that they"won't kill their host". As we have had way too many martins dead from the feasting larva. The only way that does work for us now is nest changes, right up through 22 days old. By that time they & the older ones are very calm and used to the "Old Man". This is lots of work but well worth it. What is needed is a bait that can be put in a trap small enough to be put buy the entry. A discovery by the Bluebird Restoration Assn. on how gnats don't like to enter a box that is dark inside, so they closed the vent holes & it worked. Good luck. Richard.

[yvesquad]

Sharon,

May this help you ? Yves Goudreault from Montreal is using Vapona in his condos and he have 90 pair of PM for about 15 years now he says he never had insect problem since he is converted to Vapona.

He cuts a scare peace about 1x1 inch out of the vapona bar and he hangs it inside the compartments. he has one in each of them.

No insect for the complete season........

Good luck

Yves

[Guest]

Hi.
do you know what a Vapona bar is? is it something like a fly paper? where would you expect to look for it?

Well I am very encouraged with only 1 blow fly yesterday after the nest change...I had but in a tiny amount of Sevin in the cracks of the nest tray, and there were no fleas or mites yesterday too. And especially felt good that the babies armpits were not bright red anymore. So I know the nest changes (3 nest changes so far, babies at day 16) are working.

I have to get more nest boxes cleaned out and ready to use for the next few days.
thanks for all the help....it felt so good to see the babies doing better. Believe me the first nest tray that I took out and put on the ground and the contents were pulsating was pretty amazing and upsetting. I wouldn't have believed you could have so many parasites that the surface would pulsate.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Vapona is like a pest strip, put out by Shell Oil company, it kills insects.

I don't think it is real safe, the EPA stopped its use as a food additive, it has articles about breast cancer, etc. Before I would use it, I would make sure that it is safe for birds. Just at first glance, it looks too powerful, and could possible harm different things.

I did a Google search, and found many articles on its use

[yvesquad]

Hi all,

It was only a suggestion !!! you are free to put in your condos what ever it takes to protect our bird, sevin his at the same toxicity has any other
type of chemical....It the quantity that you put in that will determine the safety of it !!!

And it was ontly a suggestion also to say that the guy was using vapona since 15 year and that he still have his 90 pair since !!!

Have a very nice day....

Yves