My Martins are Barn Swallows?!

[Guest]

I'm only mildy bummed about finding out that the Martins I thought I had living under my deck are Barn Swallows. I read enough today on this site to have figured that much out, so I've registered to tell my story and ask a few questions.

I have 3 acres in Chesterfield, MO - a burb west of St Louis. My back deck is elevated about 10 feet and it overlooks about 2 acres of lawn that's 100 yards deep and about 250 yards wide, and has only trees around the perimeter. As it turns out, heaven for birds that like to cruise at high speeds looking for bugs.

Last spring, 2 pair of Swallows built mud nests under my deck, and I though about stopping them, but then noticed that the insect population on my deck (where I love to hang) had dropped dramatically, so I left them alone. Then I became quite attached to them, and the constant baby-chirping didn't even bother me after they hatched. When the babies started to fly, it was incredible watching the swarm in the yard. They obviously made a huge mess, so I wiped everything out after they left last summer. And then I missed them and hoped that I hadn't sent a "don't come back" message.

They came back a few weeks ago, and after a week or so of buzzing me on the deck and sitting just a few feet from me while I talked to them (they got MUCH more bold with me this year) they built the nest in EXACTLY the same spots. My wife thinks I'm weird because I got so excited when they came back. Maybe she's right, but I get a kick out of watching them fight and fly - the agility is amazing. And I haven't seen more than one or two wasps in the last 2 weeks. I found that some web sites have wireless video cameras for bird houses - but I'm not that lovesick yet.

They're done building their nests now, and I wondered what the hell all those long hairs are sticking out of the mud. My neighbor has 3 sets of polo ponies - so there you have it.

I told my wife years ago that I should build a PM house in the back yard, but I wonder whether it will matter now. So here's my question(s), with the understanding that I will not evict my Swallow housemates:

Can the PM's and Swallows cohabitate in my yard? What if I put the PM house on the far corner of the yard, say 150 yards from the house? Am I better off putting several shelves under the deck and just grow my Swallow colony?

Thanks for your help!

[CUL Lou~Mich]

Show Me. Well my friend, you've come to the right place. Lots of goofy, whackos here. Goofy, whackos over PMs, and most other Native Birds that is. Pretty nice bunch of folks here. As to your questions. I don't think you'd have to go that far away. Just put the PM housing in the most open spot in your yard. Most folks like to keep their PM housing fairly close to their house, so they can do more frequent Walk Unders, checking to make sure everything is Kosher, there aren't any feathers on the ground (Indicating a predator) nor any babies that have fallen, or been pushed out of their nest. It sounds like you should have a pretty good spot for the PMs, in addition to the BS. As for the wife, She might and might not come around, but MOST folks even if they don't like birds, sorta fall in love with PMs. Just don't push her. Let her come around. Good Luck. CUL Lou

[Mary Dawnsong]

Hi,

So glad to hear that you enjoy swallows! The Purple Martin is the largest of our swallow species and I think you would be thrilled to have them as residents, too.

Purple Martins and Barn Swallows are absolutely compatible. You likely will never see the two species interact in any way.

Martin house location is critical. Martins want their housing out in the open, away from trees, with wide-open flight paths. If there are trees around the perimeter of your yard, then you'll need to place the martin housing right in the center. For more info, scroll down to the Location section on this page:
http://purplemartin.org/main/mgt.html

Martins can be a challenge to attract, but Missouri has a strong population of martins. So, you've probably got a good chance if your habitat is right. This article gives you the basics for attracting martins:
http://purplemartin.org/main/topten.html

There are great photos of martins on the web.
Click on this page to see dozens of photos:
http://www.link not allowed/id61.htm

If you want to start a martin colony this season, you will have to get housing up immediately. However, please do not rush out and buy a martin house without first learning what's best for martins in your area. One good local contact is forum participant John Miller, who is the landlord for the martin colonies in Forest Park. Click here to learn more about him:
http://purplemartin.org/forum/profile.p ... ile&u=1100

Hope you consider starting a martin colony,
Mary

[Kyle Gregoire]

Dear showme, Birds can be alot of fun. Ive been feeding black oil sunflower seed for 14 years now since ive moved to VT. My feeders have never gone dry. The seed is cheaper if you buy 50 lb bags at an agway or similar place. Ive had a a quite few experiences, hummingbirds land on my hand when i was hanging a sugar feeder, last year i had my slideing door open ,and a barn swallow came in the living room, circled four or five times, landed on the rabbit ears of my television, sat for about 10 to 15 seconds, as if to say hello there, and hastily departed. I can feed chickadees by hand and had a completely white one a few years ago. It can be a great hobby for older people because its easy to do and you dont have to go anywhere to do it. I recommend it heartly. I had 22 cardinals (at the same time) at my feeders a couple of Januarys ago. Yesterday (May fifth) the baltimore Orioles and Rose breasted grossbeaks showed up. We now are just getting a new bird ,Titmouse, to come this far north. I had three this winter. So if you get into birding, you will be glad you did.

[Guest]

I say they will co-habitate togather. My neighbor has them next door, I have PMs. The Barnies are amazing acrobats!

The best recommendation I can give:
Don't run out and but the first house you see. Ask for recommendations, see what the PMCA offers. There are some great PM housing out there, then there are some ghettos! You'll have to decide how much ka-ching to spend.

oh, about the wife....... she'll come around!!
Chuck

[Dale Hrncirik]

shomedamunny,

I concur with Mary and the others that the barnies and the martins are very compatible. I had both species for several years at my Wylie, Tx home and I too noticed much fewer flying insects while the swallows were there. I would often see the barnies pick off flies buzzing the patio, and never got a skeeter bite until early Aug after the barnies and martins had migrated south. Since they built under my covered patio in a corner, I attached a flower 'flat' to the house with newspaper in it about 5' off the ground and would periodically replace the soiled paper with a new clean one. The patio stayed clean and the wife was very happy...gottaa keep the wifey happy. Enjoy

My Barn Swallow Fledglings

Dale

[Guest]

ShowMe:

You most certainly can have both Barn Swallows and Purple Martins. In fact, you could even have 3 species of swallows in your yard if you are in an area where Tree Swallows live - I do! Each swallow inhabits its own niche, with slightly different housing requirements and slightly different bug diets. In my yard, I have Eastern Bluebirds (for the ground bugs), Tree Swallows and Barnies working the lower to mid-elevations, and Purple Martins, the highest fliers, for the upper stories.

Barn Swallows are my constant summer companions, following my mower while I work and scooping up the insects I stir up. In fact, I don't see how anyone can properly mow their yard without a squad of Barnies zipping past your face. In addition, Carolina and House Wrens eat bugs in my yard, and Eastern Kingbirds are murder on flies. And now, I think I am getting another fly-catcher, the Eastern Phoebe, nesting in my yard - hurrah! As for mosquito patrol, you can't beat bats. I have horses and a pond and I rarely get bitten or stung by anything. I refuse to use poisons, and who needs them with all the birds (and bats, too) helping me out.

This site is the right one for you to answer all your "How-To" questions. Start with the links Mary gave you and after you have done a little reading, post your questions here. With all the expertise on this board, somebody will have the answer, or will at least point you in the right direction.

Dale:

Fabulous picture of the baby Barn Swallows - who wouldn't love a face like that! I can't find where my Barnies nest (apparently, not in my barn!) but they bring their newly-fledged babies to my garage roof every year, I think for flight school!

[RC Moser]

Barnswallows IMO rate right up their with PMs and Chimney swifts. Barnswallows are neat little birds that will not be bothered by your presents on the patio if you not moving around. Most people that don't get birds evict Barnswallows from patio's and car ports not know the benefits and enjoyment they bring to there little busy world.

I for one have a passion for swallows and have got two out of the big four. I even remove my chimney cap to alow Chimney swifts to nest in my chimney. Some people tell me they will ruin my chimney and I respond what a little nest and dropping going to do to brick! And besides I consider it a honor they picked my residents for me to enjoy. IMO the enjoyment overweights alittle clean out in the fall.

IMO Barnswallow will give you the same enjoyment with very little work on your part. I thought I was going to get a pair under my patio, but no luck I think it was too low for there tastes. Enjoy on of natures neatest little birds.

[Guest]

To all -

Thanks very much for all the replies! All the info was enlightening (i.e., the PMs and BSs can cohabitate. Special thanks to Mary for all the links - they'll be put to good use.

Unfortunately, there's just no way I can act now on the PM house. Too much travel and other landscaping to do. But come next early March I'll have done all the necessary research and will put the PM house up.

Don't get me wrong - the wife seems happy that I'm enjoying the birds - pleased that I apparently "lighten up" a little when I see them around. Good cheap stress relief.

So... when can I expect to see some babies? I noticed no one sitting on the nests today. At least I don't see anyone in the nests - could be so deep that mama is under the rim? So when do they typically lay the eggs and how long after that?

Notice I put a photo of one of my house mates next to my signature ;)

Dale - I love the photo of the BS family. Beautiful eyes! I saw the same thing last year as the babies were learning to fly. I'll see if I can get a similar photo this year.

Regards to all!