Insulating your flooring with styrofoam

[Guest]

Last season I insulated all of the flooring in our Coates Watersedge and TG12 aluminum housing with 1/2" pink construction grade styrofoam. The results were not favorable. Well over 50% discarded all prenesting material that I put into all cavities before they arrived. What was really strange was when egg laying began, they pecked out a nest cup in the styrofoam and laid their eggs inside that hole with little or no nesting material! Almost all of the birds were ASY from the previous year. When I discovered what they were doing I removed the styrofoam and replaced it with new nesting material which they immediately tossed out. Then some of the eggs and some chicks were on the bare floor. We didn't loose any birds but we didn't have any increase as we have had in previous years. I felt like I pulled the welcome rug right out from under them. Let alone knowing that the adult birds might have and probably did ingest some of the foam while creating their nest cup. At first I thought like I was doing the right thing by providing extra warmth during our cold spring weather. Not this year! This season I will continue my old habits of providing plenty of prenesting material: wheat straw, dried pine needles and dry oak leaves to get them through some of our cold northern spring temperatures. Just thought some of you would like to know about my experiences before using styrofoam on your flooring.

[Joe Zorn]

Randy,

One of the old-times here...I don't remember which..sometimes suggests using styrofoam as a flooring, and passing a butane tourch over the center of the floor section. causing it to sort of melt back and form natural bowl.

If your birds liked the styrofoam bowl better than the nesting materials you provided, maybe this is your answer. This way, there will be not ingesting the styrofoam, since they don't have to dig out the bowl in the floor.

Of course, it would not hurt to provide them with the straw and pine needles, and let them toss them if they'd rather the bare floor.

I ahve been thinking along these lines myself,and after reading of your experience, I am about convinced that I want to do it.

Joe

[Guest]

Personally, I think the martins should be left alone in their nest building. I think Mother Nature has them well equipped to decide what materials, etc. they want for a nest. Last year, I didn't help in any way and their nests were full and deep. The SYs were a little messy , but they were nice nests.



lanell

[John Miller]

Randy

I have used styrofoam inserts for a couple of seasons, both as inserts and as nest trays, with fairly good results. I do waft a propane torch over it for a second and burn in a nest bowl.

I have noticed thinner nests in some, but not to the extent as you did. I have not seen martins scratch into it; only modest wear. Sparrows do really tear into it.

My only concern has been that by raising the floor higher, sometimes the entry hole is nearly flush to the floor of styrofoam, particularly when a six by six square is used in the back compartment of a modified trio, or the side Coates Suites compartment. This leads to the possibility of nest material getting drug out more easily as birds come and go, and to an
occasional baby tumbling out to the front compartment while it is still without feathers. So, I may cease using the insert in those situations, or raise the hole more to create a deeper nest box vertically.

I understand your decision to go back to just adding prenesting material. That should work fine if you are generous with it. My original motivation for styrofoam was that I added prenest, but not enough, on an aluminum nest tray; it wore thin and I found dead fledglings sitting on bare metal after a cool rainy spell. I thought the styrofoam surely would be better, mimicking the bottom of a woodpecker hole, but it's hard to mimic mother nature. John Miller

[John Barrow]

Hi Randy,

I build styrofoam nestboxes for each of my 36 compartments that I maintain in Lone Star houses along the Gulf Coast. Some are pink from Home Depot; Lowes offers blue. I have a mix of both.

I have witnessed exactly what you have described, but have never seen a problem result. It is common for martins, particularly ASYs, to pull out all provided nesting material and build their own nest. They are more likely to do so, than not, in my experience. Perhaps this is their way of being assured there are no carry-over parisites. Likewise, once they have removed the nest material I provide, they often scratch out a bowl in the styrofoam and lay their eggs there--usually they will carry in a few leaves and twigs first. It makes a great nest bowl, holding the eggs in place and aiding in incubaiton. My nestchecks reveal that only 2 or 3 of the 36 will scratch the styrofoam alll the way to the floor beneath. It has been my observation that they scratch out the bowl with their feet and not peck it with their beaks. I know of no instance where one has eaten any styrofoam, nor have I seen them drop pieces from their mouth. Starlings, on the other hand will devour a foam nestbox if they gain entry into a cavity. I have not witnessed ill affects to them. I believe they do use both their sharp beaks, and feet, to destroy the box.

I started using styrofoam nestboxes to replace commercial wooden ones because they are so much lighter, easy to make and certainly add some insulation features to the houses. They have worked well for me.

I would encourage you to give a few another try. They are far superior to removal and a bare-floored nest.

Best wishes this season for you and the martins. jb

[Scott D.- La]

Hi Randy, I did the same this year,however I used foam board which has a protective cover over the foam. I hope from your experience, that does not happen to me and will monitor that situation closely. If it does not work I will scrap the Coates as I do not care for the house or the pole. Please dont be offended as it is a personal opinion and offer it as such. I wish I would have spent a little more and got the Watersedge with heavy pole. I have the Coates 12 and modified it to six. Its my opinion even insulated this set up is not weather resistant enough and rain can easily get in as witnessed last week with the heavy weather we recieved. Agian, just my opinion, so please take it as such. Iam thinking of turning it into a dedicated sparrow trap.I did order some tunnel extentions to try out also. Thanks for the information.

[Craig Haddox]

I use styrofoam nest inserts in all of my houses. This will be my 3rd year using them. They are 6x6x1'' I also put a couple of handfulls of straw for nesting material and the martins take care of the rest. No problem with wet nests. There is a 4'' circle cut a 1/2 inch deep in each insert. 30 pairs of martins last year and seen no signs of them pecking at the styrofoam. The straw usually keeps the inserts buried until the babies are about to fledge. By then most most of the nesting is gone. All in all the inserts hold up pretty good.

[carlymac]

Here are some pics I made several years ago when I was altering my castle style house.
I have found the foam floors help tremendously in my house, due to it's ill design by allowing rainfall to sheet under the walls and doors into the nesting compartment. Here in the south we have short cold snaps early in the season but are more affected by the heat later in the season.
In my trials I feel the foam is a vast improvement to my setup and will continue to use it until convenced otherwise.
As with all trials in our passion, I'll keep an open mind to all views and to be honest with myself and the martin community.
Here are the steps I use in making my sub-floors:
Cut the foamboard to match the floor area. (I have double compartments in a castle style house so I sub-floored both rooms.)
Use a torch to melt a nest bowl.( I also melted a path from the nestbowl to the hole between the two compartments. To off set the higher floor at the pass throughhole.)
as the foam melts it creates a plastic like covering that is more durable than the foam.
After the foam cools I spraypaint the subfloor with a dark paint.( The paint causes a chemical reaction with the foam that again causes a plastc like covering to the foam)
I feel the heat and chemical reactin hardens the foam so the sub-floors become more durable and less likely to be scratched off.
I did note the nests are a bit thinner than on the bare metal floor but the nests were dry.
Below are a few pictures explaining my procedure.

[Guest]

Thanks to all for your helpful and insightful replies. I may have to reconsider using the inserts again but only if I already have a nest bowl in it before they arrive. What puzzled me was when I did remove the inserts little if any styrofoan pieces were left inside the cavity. The pink grade that I got from Lowe's did have a plastic type film/liner over the foam and they had to peck/scratch at it to get to the foam underneath. I doubt that I will go back to using it again. I "thought" they would just build their nests on top of the foam and they would have insulation under them for warmth. Guess that's what I get for thinking! But the new plan is 1/2" pine 5 7/8" square with a beveled nest cup in the center. Since we have blow fly larvae here we have to do two nest changes. After the second change they throw out most of the nesting material anyway. John I think your idea with using a propane torch is on the money! That way the foam is sealed and the cup is intact. I also do not use those nest trays that come with the houses because when we do nest changes there are still blow fly larvae under them and also because the chicks grab onto the holes in the floor and you have to coax the little guy by gently rubbing his leg to let go! What I was using and am going back to is a square piece of 1/8" plywood on the floor and nesting material on top for the majority of our housing...but I'm still going to try out the pine with nest cup inserts in a few cavities. We also have 12 SG's that are modified with 4" tunnels from Sandy Bunn. Good luck to all this season and I hope that all of our numbers increase.